TR: Taboose Pass/Arrow Creek/Gardiner Basin Loop, 8/29-9/5/2

[seanr]

That Clarence King basin does indeed look awesome as does King Col and Gardiner. The ratings discussion is intriguing. Thanks for posting.

[Wandering Daisy]

Boulders can be Class 3 IF you have to class 3 moves to get over or down the boulders. The rating is supposed to consider only the hardest one move, however, it usually takes several contiguous hard moves to get the class 3 rating. This of course depends on the weight of your pack and your height. Class 3 is not just putting your hands on boulders -it is actual scrambling (climbing) where you pull up with hands. Often with a heavy pack I resort to using hands on class 2 where I would not have to on a day-hike. Secor's guide is a climber's guide, mostly focusing on class 4 and above. Much of the class 2 designation is based on approaching a climb, perhaps even with sticky rubber climbing shoes - NOT carrying a heavy pack. Being short, I have had to "scramble" (class 3) up a few passes that were rated Class 1! All ratings are pretty subjective. But I do agree that the class 2 designation is so broad that it is almost useless without additional information. Steep exposed slabs are another example of class 2 that those not well experienced in rock climbing may find very difficult. You do not use hands, but unless your balance is just right, you can seriously fall. And everything depends on route finding. If the route is not clearly marked or described it is easy to get off route into harder stuff. Although exposure is not considered in ratings, I always have felt if a normal slip would result in a lengthy fall (fall-you-die) the pass should be class 3. Exposed trails, such as Forester Pass, do not qualify, because the trail is wide enough that the likelihood of falling off the trail is slim.

I agree that climbing ratings are not always applicable to judging difficulty when backpacking. I do not know if there is a solution. Even reading trip reports, others have described passes as hard when I thought they were easy, and easy when I thought they were hard.

[rlown]

climbing ratings only matter above 3.

As Mark said

1:- trail
2: off trail
3 touching rocks with hands ( sometimes even on 2)
4: rope?

7: "walking the JMT on your hands?"

Mav, you need to spin this off on a thread about now.

Russ

[RiseToADry]

Sweet TR to a very remote location. I appreciate the info you shared about the fish! Cheers!

[sekihiker]

I agree that climbing ratings are not always applicable to judging difficulty when backpacking. I do not know if there is a solution. Even reading trip reports, others have described passes as hard when I thought they were easy, and easy when I thought they were hard.

The most common system for rating the difficulty of crossing terrain is the Yosemite Decimal System (YDS). I propose an alternate system because it does not seem that there are enough divisions at the lower levels of the YDS, especially for those carrying full packs. There are five levels of difficulty in my system, Bill's Terrain Rating System (BTRS), that can be used as alternatives for YDS classes 1, 2 and 3. When finished crossing B-1 terrain, you don't think at all about its difficulty. After a B-2 ascent or descent, you think about how hard you are breathing. A B-3 crossing will cause you to think about how hard your heart is pounding. During and after a B-4 passage, you will notice how bad your armpits smell. The criterion for determining B-5 terrain is to check the wrappers on the candy in your pocket. If the twists at the ends of the wrappers are puckered especially tightly, then you definitely are talking B-5. If you aren't carrying any wrapped candy, to confirm crossing of B-5 terrain just inspect your shorts instead.