Planning for Late May Trip: Rae Lakes Loop or Deadman Canyon

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RoguePhotonic
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Re: Planning for Late May Trip: Rae Lakes Loop or Deadman Canyon

Post by RoguePhotonic »

You only get a peak at the head wall when you are at Ranger Meadow but it is enough to judge the snow level.

This set from my 2011 hike goes down through Deadman with allot of snow and can give you ideas of views and where you can see them.
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Re: Planning for Late May Trip: Rae Lakes Loop or Deadman Canyon

Post by Wandering Daisy »

OK. I am going to put in my 2 cents worth about snow. When I moved to California from Wyoming the first summer was a high snowpack year. Everyone I talked to said "oh no" it is far too dangerous to go out- you will post hole through the snow and drown or whatever, like there was something different and sinister about Sierra snow. So I waited. The next year I just went out into the snow. Had I not been willing to get into the snow when I started climbing in the PNW or in the Selkirks of Canada, or in Wyoming, I would have stayed home half the summer. I grew up on snow. You climb those big volcanos in May because you WANT to be on snow.

The deal is you need to have experience on snow, know how to "read" it, know when it is dangerous and when not, be equipped and prepared. With snow experience the early season opens up a whole new world! You likely will post-hole, get wet, really go slow, exert a great deal of effort, but done properly, it is not inherently dangerous. You will NOT be able to go 15 miles a day - more like 5 miles. I absolutely LOVE the snowy early season! I generally camp on a big flat rock or some obscure dry spot. Because of high river crossings, you have to plan carefully. You have to be willing to retreat.

I believe we have a section for beginners on snow travel in this forum. Read those posts and then decide if you want to deal with snow. Too early to say right now what snow conditions will be in the late spring.
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Re: Planning for Late May Trip: Rae Lakes Loop or Deadman Canyon

Post by Ska-T »

Franklin, I don't know if this thread is dead yet, but if it isn't then I strongly suggest you give up the Deadman Canyon loop route. Three days is not enough time.

Tim had the perfect suggestion for a 3-day trip, that is, Miter Basin. You said you are willing to hike 15 mi days.

Day 1: It is about 14 mi from Horseshoe Meadows over Cottonwood Pass (an easy pass and no significant snow obstacles) to lower Miter Basin.

Day 2: Drop you packs and day hike to explore the MB. There are lakes in the middle of the basin and in high side cirques on both sides of the basin to visit, Crabtree Pass to look over, Class 2 peaks to climb, etc.

Day 3: Make the trip a loop by exiting over New Army Pass and back to Horseshoe Meadow via the Cottonwood Lakes trail or the South Fork Creek Trail (not shown on all maps). (Note: If there is too much snow on New Army Pass you can turn around and go out Cottonwood Pass.)

Franklin, you need to put your foot down and insist on this east side start. The driving time from LA to Lone Pine (3 1/2 hr + 1/2 hr to Horseshoe Meadows) is less than the time from LA to Sequoia. If you drive up the afternoon before you start your hike you can car camp at the BLM Tuttle Creek campground just west of Lone Pine for $5. They have bear boxes and privies!!

If you absolutely have to do a west side loop, then from your menu I'd choose the Rae Lakes Loop. If you do Glen Pass in the middle of the day the snow should be soft enough to get up (or down) the north side without too much difficulty. If you have to turn around the trip will still be a good adventure, especially if you go clockwise from Road's End. If you have to turn around and you started counterclockwise you could visit East Lake and maybe Lake Reflection, but that depends on being able to cross Bubbs Creek in early season. All that said, Miter Basin is still a better bet by far.
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Re: Planning for Late May Trip: Rae Lakes Loop or Deadman Canyon

Post by franklin411 »

Thanks for the replies guys! Nope, the thread isn't dead yet. I've been focusing on my academic work, and trying not to procrastinate too much by thinking about future vacations.

Another friend (female also, but new to hiking) signed on for the trip so I'll have to use my one free permit modification to add her. I'm debating changing our route as well, for three reasons:

1. I'm not sure the new person can handle 15+ miles per day.
2. Conflicting info about the route length. My Trails Illustrated map puts the trail length at 48 miles, but I found trip reports listing up to 54 miles.
3. I tried climbing up Elizabeth Pass from the HST last September for about a mile and found it to be pretty overgrown. On that same trip, I talked with a party that had transited Elizabeth Pass from Deadman Canyon to the HST and they said it was pretty rough going down. So I'm a bit concerned that it'll be slow exiting Deadman Canyon.

I'll look at the map some more. Thanks for the suggestions, Ska-T! My friend was adamant about not wanting to do the Eastern side and I don't know why. All I know is she can be really stubborn and you have to choose your battles. I decided to let her have that one. I kinda don't like the idea of going off-trail too. I think if I did go off-trail, it would be to try to cut across the Tableland to Lodgepole instead of doing Elizabeth Pass > HST.

Rae Lakes is a possibility though. I dunno. Maybe I'm just a contrarian, but the fact that it's a "must do" trail makes me...not want to do it. Ha!

I may just decide to figure out a loop based on this thread that starts at Road's End or Marvin or w/e, or maybe just a double back to the Roaring River area. I dunno.
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Re: Planning for Late May Trip: Rae Lakes Loop or Deadman Canyon

Post by AlmostThere »

I came down Elizabeth Pass after bailing off a trans Tablelands offtrail route. The trail was barely there - but I am relatively good at finding faded and nearly gone old trail. I had experienced people with me. I think inexperienced backpackers uncomfortable with cross country in steep terrain would be nervous with the south side of the pass. It's not so much overgrown as it is eroded and unmaintained.

I never trust National Geographic's maps for mileage. Tom Harrison's maps are more accurate.

Navigating through the Tablelands is an exercise in navigating granite slabs, boulders and ridges. Staying on the ridges reduces elevation loss and gain rollercoasters.

Rae Lakes is worth seeing. I'm planning a variant of it myself.
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Re: Planning for Late May Trip: Rae Lakes Loop or Deadman Canyon

Post by Wandering Daisy »

If you are in doubt about Elizabeth Pass, traversing the Tablelands is probably not a good idea. I have never had trouble on Elizabeth Pass (lost it a few times but quickly found it again). But I thought navigating Tablelands was very tricky. Partly because there still was snow and lots of post-holing.

On the Rae Lakes Loop you can avoid most crowds at night if you just get off the trail. A few hundred yards off trail and you can have solitude. Two nice add-on day hikes - from Junction Meadow go up to Lake Reflection. From Rae Lakes go over to 60 Lakes.

A loop out of Mineral King would also be through some really nice country and not nearly as crowded.
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Re: Planning for Late May Trip: Rae Lakes Loop or Deadman Canyon

Post by overheadx2 »

Rae lakes is crowded, but like WD said you can get plenty of solitude by going to either Dragon Lake or 60 Lakes Basin. We camped at Rae Lakes one night, but due to the crowds, we moved to Dragon Lake and then over to 60 lakes. Both were vacant all day.
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Planning for Late May Trip: Rae Lakes Loop or Deadman Canyon

Post by Hobbes »

Well, it looks like this thread is indeed undead, so I'll chime in as well with a few observations:

1. Rae lakes is crowded in the same manner that San Diego beaches are crowded. And why is that? Because (a) SD beaches are bare ribbons compared to super-wide Orange & Los Angeles county beaches; but more importantly (b), no one ever seems to consider Arizona! That's right, if you live in Phoenix or Tucson, what's the straightest, most direct route to the Pacific ocean? I-8 baby.

And so, SD tends to be a mad house in summer, more so than OC/LA if at all possible, because you need to add SD residents + people from two large metro areas in AZ who are intent on getting out of the desert.

Now, consider the Bay area - it has two prime routes to the High Sierra: Kings Cyn & Yosemite. Yosemite is a well known clusterf**k in summertime, and besides which, the vast majority stay in the Valley proper. That leaves Kings Cyn for those fresh from their local REI store who want to get out and experience backpacking.

And what is the primo, #1 hike out of Roads End? The Rae lakes loop. The problem with RLL is it delivers big, beautiful scenery, including running rivers, lush forests and sparkling Alpine lakes on an easy, well marked trail. So who can blame anyone for wanting to go? The problem of course is you'll think you're in SF proper - Rae lakes is one of the few places in the Sierra which has a time limit on the number of nights you can stay.

For people who live in the Bay area, and need their Sierra fix, then RLL is an obvious choice. But for anyone coming from out-of-state on a bucket list kind of trip, the much wiser course of action is to approach the mountains from the East side trailheads if at all possible.

As far as preferred THs, I'm in agreement with Ska-T further up-thread, with a slight alteration: perhaps the biggest secret in the Sierra is that you can almost always get a walk-in exit permit out of Whitney. What that means is you can enter from Cottonwood, (New) Army pass, Kearsarge or even Shepherd, cruise along the PCT/JMT (or Miter as suggested) in perhaps the biggest country in the Sierra (highest peaks, double range - Great Western, highest pass - Forester), and then, just to top it off, have a snack on top of Whitney and walk out.

Now sure, Whitney is going to be crowded, but it's (a) the last day of the trip (if you're doing 15 mile days); (b) no one is camping on the peak (well, maybe a few), so it's all very transient & cheerful; and (c) there aren't any casual "party" hikers - people put in the time to train either for a day hike or overnighter. Most have a look of determination, especially those who spent months of rigamarole going through the lottery process for permits, etc.

There are a many other multi-day hikes out of the eastside that cover impressive territory and seem to miss the great bulk of foot traffic. TI lake from Silverlake, Duck pass to Tully/Silver from Mammoth, etc. Ask a few questions - all the regulars have their favorites and could provide some insight/tips.

Here's a shot taken from Diamond mesa looking towards the Kaweahs with GW divide in the background & Colby pass off to the right - no one around anywhere:
Image
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Re: Planning for Late May Trip: Rae Lakes Loop or Deadman Canyon

Post by franklin411 »

Hi all,
OK, we ended up sticking to the original plan and just playing it by ear, mainly because the alternatives seemed problematic. The plan is to enter via the Twin Lakes trail and try to get to Sugarloaf Meadow on Day 1. If we make that, then we should be able to get to within sight of Elizabeth Pass to make a decision about going forward or not on Day 2. If we decide not to tackle Elizabeth Pass, then we can still experience Deadman Canyon and have plenty of time to fall back to Sugarloaf or Commanche that night, hiking out the way we came on Day 3. It wouldn't be a loop, but it should still be a great trip I think.

The 3rd person we added said she can handle 15 miles per day and I'm taking her at her word, while confirming it with a 15 mile training hike with full overnight packs in the San Gabriels. If she can't do it, I think we'd do fine with the backup plan above. Are there any peaks in the vicinity of the Twin Lakes trail or Roaring River that would be easy-ish to bag for Class 1 - light Class 2 hikers? I thought if she can really only handle 10-15 miles, we should just hike to Sugarloaf, make camp, dayhike from there into Deadman Canyon or bag a peak or something, spend Night 2 at Sugarloaf, and then hike out on Day 3.

@Hobbes + Ska-T
Totally agree with Hobbes on Rae Lakes. To me, there's something more appealing about Deadman Canyon because I think fewer people are going to get to see it vs the popular hike of RLL.

I do like the East side idea, but the problem for this trip is that my friend put the kybash on Eastern Sierra THs. There's no putting my foot down with her--she'll just get mad. I can't really argue with her either because she made just that one request (Westside only) and I was free to pick any route I wanted as long as we got back on time. That said, don't think that your advice has gone to waste. I have another friend who really doesn't care what TH as long as we're in the mountains, and I'm going to put the routes you outlined to work later on with her. I did Whitney last summer, but my TH-flexible-friend hasn't so it would be fun to do it with her a second time.

I really don't know why my friend is so adamant about not wanting to do the East side, but now I have to find out! I know she has been to the Eastern Sierra but I think she hasn't done the Western Sierra at all, so that could be the reason. I suppose that would be reasonable, but of course I'm only guessing.

@AlmostThere and Wandering Daisy
Got it...Tablelands is definitely off the list no matter what. It sounds like we probably could handle Elizabeth Pass as long as we got an early start and allowed plenty of time to divert around badly washed out areas. Is that about accurate? IIRC it took me 4 hrs to hike from the Elizabeth Pass trail/HST junction to Crescent Meadow last year. I'm not sure if my friends can keep that pace, but I figure if we take about 2-3 hours to transit Elizabeth Pass we should still get back to the car with a couple of hours of daylight to spare.

I'm going to Mineral King 2 weeks after this trip, so don't worry...I'll get there! :)

Thanks again, everyone!
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Re: Planning for Late May Trip: Rae Lakes Loop or Deadman Canyon

Post by franklin411 »

Post script: Both girls ended up flaking out (first one girl because she wanted to go to a concert instead, and then the other girl because the first girl wasn't going)!

I may still do this as a solo and give myself an extra day, or maybe shift it to Mineral King as a solo (but the marmots scare me), or maybe shift it car camping/day hiking, or shift to June/July, or do something else entirely.

Kinda annoying how a person's word doesn't count for anything these days!
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