HST Good Loops for Backpacking Mid March?

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Wandering Daisy
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Re: HST Good Loops for Backpacking Mid March?

Post by Wandering Daisy »

I do recall I was referring to the BOOK that NOLS wrote regarding backpack and climbing safety. I believe these books are about $20-$30. And yes, taking actual instruction is wonderful. (I went cost free on a scholarship). I got started with the Spokane Mountaineers who had a "mountain school" - free. We used Mountaineering, Freedom of the Hills. It still is a great book to read- applicable to backpacking as well as climbing. There are many other fine books out there. Reading a few good books does not preclude going out and experiencing too. Colleges used to have "outing clubs" - not sure if they still do. It is unfortunate that many of the organizations that used to do a lot of training are no longer doing it (too much liability nowadays). Scouts are still a good place to start too. And one of the tried and true ways to get going is to find a mentor. If some young person came up to me and said, will you take me backpacking, I sure would!

Even with all my experience, I still try to read backpack instruction books. I always learn something new.

And yes, most people who just go out and "do-it" trial and error come back alive. But some do not. But what I think is just as important, is that if you have a horrible first experience, you may quit altogether. I hope I do not become an old-timer who feels "I got mine and now stay out of my wilderness so I can have it all to myself". I want to see young people out there and I want them to know how to be safe. And safe is not to say no risk. And common sense does not cover it for the city-bred or if they never had a family that exposed them to the outdoors. For example, if you do not know the facts about lightning, "common sense" tells you to go sit under a tree to get out of the rain.

The Sierra is much more forgiving that a lot of other mountain ranges. The "just do it" method in Alaska, Canadian Rockies, to name a few, up the risk of getting into trouble.
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Re: HST Good Loops for Backpacking Mid March?

Post by rlown »

Common sense doesn't tell you to sit under a tree in lightning. It's about being in the lowest point you can get to to be safe(r).

Not sure where you were going with that.

Most of your points are valid.. read, learn and don't die. And this is the Sierra, and not Alaska, Canada, etc. Pick a time you know and go. Know your requirements for the time frame.
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Re: HST Good Loops for Backpacking Mid March?

Post by sparky »

Thank you rlown for bringing a little sanity. Seems our culture is getting to be so damn overdramatic. Hell, dying isnt the worst thing that can happen to you....try living life in a bubble!! Sheesh!
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Re: HST Good Loops for Backpacking Mid March?

Post by Wandering Daisy »

Where I was going with the lightning example is that "Common sense" is born of experience in the environment you live in. If you live in a place where you have no experience with lighting you do not automatically think about it. I grew up in the PNW - wet, rain but not much lightning. Our first "common sense" thought as kids was to get out of the rain - go sit under a tree! Later when I learned about lightning in the mountains, I LEARNED about low points - that was not something already in my "common sense" basket. Not everyone grows up in an environment that teaches common sense with respect to the outdoors. I had students at NOLS who grew up in the inner city- never walked off pavement, never seen stars! Their common sense was geared to survival in the ghetto - lots of skills there - I would not have the "common sense" to survive there. I was raised to trust people, that all people had good souls. It would never cross my mind that someone would want to kill me. Bottom line-- YOUR common sense is not MY common sense. So, no common sense alone does not cut it in the wilderness. And common sense is in really short supply when you are teenagers! That is why the army recruits "invincible" 18-year olds.

I agree that we can get too overblow with the safety thing. There are abundant risks in backpacking but most can be mitigated with the proper actions. Short backpacks in the Sierra, especially on the trail, are not a lot more than extended walks in the park. And "solo" on the JMT is hardly solo backpacking. Since I have done most of my outdoors as alpine climbing, backpacking is pretty mellow.

But I stop at the point where I would not say to someone wanting to do something really stupid - go do it and suffer the consequences. As a parent many times I would have loved to tell my know-it-all teens, OK just do it and see where it lands you. A lot of smaller things, yes. But the biggies, no. You also do not let a 2 year old run out in the street and get hit by a car to teach them not to run out in the street. Some beginning backpackers, because of their lack of exposure to the wilderness, are sort of like 2 year olds. Now, the experienced who knowingly take on unnecessary risk for fame, or whatever, go ahead.

And just because I did some stupid things in the wilderness when I was young, and got by, does not mean I advocate that method of learning.
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Re: HST Good Loops for Backpacking Mid March?

Post by sparky »

The HST mentoring program. Call now for the low low introductory price of $1,000 a day! Who wants to be first to take Jes out on an excursion? :nod:

Seriously though, that would be kind of neat! minus the $1,000 of course
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Re: HST Good Loops for Backpacking Mid March?

Post by rlown »

I think all you have to do is ask to tag along on a trip with some on this forum via PM. Some would say no, but some might say yes.
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Re: HST Good Loops for Backpacking Mid March?

Post by Tom_H »

So let's review a little. A new member with no experience whatsoever starts one thread inquiring about hiking the HST and Whitney Portal area solo in mid-March. The first thing some members begin discussing is whether he needs a permit. Other people talk him out of it and he agrees. A day later the same person starts a new thread inquiring about HST loops. The person owns a backpack and a sleeping bag that's not a backpacking sleeping bag. That's it. Somehow the reality does not sink in as people try a little harder and a little harder to explain it.

Now comes along someone telling the poster to rely on himself alone and no one else. AlmostThere responds appropriately in almost shock at the statement. Unbelievably, someone replies that AT is "trippin".

Russ, in another earlier thread (there have been several this year) someone with no experience inquired about winter backpacking. I stated you need specialized training to survive in winter conditions (training that I have). You told them they did not need any training and advised they should just go do it. You think I should not talk so much about death? That's not going to happen. Too many people have already died. Jes was not grasping the reality. I did what I thought was necessary to make the message sink in. I did not like being so hard on the kid, but I am a retired professional. If that's what it takes to keep him alive, that's what I'm going to do. I spent years teaching young people how to survive under adverse conditions in the wilderness. I have a passion for that. If I think someone is unknowingly flirting with suicide, I am going to act in a way that I think will prevent that. It was an act of tough love, but I am not one to sit passively while someone walks into the wilderness that I love and either die or come back with such a bad experience that he never tries it again.

I got through to Jes. Because I did, I figured I also had a responsibility to guide his enthusiasm in a positive manner and not crush it. To date he and I have exchanged 45 PMs as I try to assist him in selecting equipment and destinations as well as learn what he needs to know. It is my intention for him not only to survive, but to find the same love and passion for the wilderness that I have and for it to become a lifelong endeavor.

Nature is a powerful and primal force. If you do not learn to understand and respect her she will devour you. Learn to understand her and gain wisdom about living within her boundaries and you can thrive. The attitude just go do it is not a responsible approach. That message is a menace to the entire hiking community and I will always counter it whether others like it or not. It is a responsibility that I cannot ignore. I have nothing against you personally, but I cannot and will not stand idly by if I think someone's life is in danger.
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Re: HST Good Loops for Backpacking Mid March?

Post by sparky »

Deleting my post it is unnecessary
Last edited by sparky on Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: HST Good Loops for Backpacking Mid March?

Post by rlown »

what he said, Tom.

Besides that, think of all those who do go and live w/o your prized wisdom. Heck, I'm one, though that was years ago. Guess i didn't ask.. wait.. no internet.

Some of those "bad" experiences are the best memories of my life. They were overcome.

Still comes back to find a friend or friends and go learn. In small doses at first and expand it.
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Re: HST Good Loops for Backpacking Mid March?

Post by rlown »

It would be nice to hear from Jes on the topic again, as he's been PM'ing multiple people for gear info, etc.. After all, it is his thread.

Jes, What have you learned?
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