Down is the new up!

Share your advice and personal experiences, post a gear review or ask any questions you may have pertaining to outdoor gear and equipment.
User avatar
tim
Topix Expert
Posts: 516
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:36 pm
Experience: N/A
Location: Bay Area

Down is the new up!

Post by tim »

Interesting article in the Wall St Journal about the rising price of down:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 10514.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looks like it's time to stock up (I'm glad I just bought my new sleeping bag with the last REI 20% discount and my dividend) . The numbers below would imply to me that retail price of a higher end sleeping bag containing ~2 pounds of down could go up as much as $80, though competition might limit price rises to say 10%-15%.

Key quotes:
"The North Face, an outdoor brand...that is famous for its down-filled jackets, is expecting to raise the price of its down products for the first time in five years, said VF Chief Executive Eric Wiseman."

"A pound of white goose down that cost about $12 in 2009 sells for around $28 today. Prices of other down varieties and grades also have increased. Duck down, around $9 a pound in 2009, now costs about $19 a pound."

"Columbia Sportswear Co...created a new, synthetic insulation product in 2010 before it became apparent how much the cost of down would rise. Now, the company will try to use it more in product designs, said Matthew Hoeferlin, director of materials. Mr. Hoeferlin said higher-end outdoor jackets and sleeping bags that use white goose down will see retail prices rise. Now planning its fall 2013 assortment, Columbia will likely pass some of the increase along, he said."
User avatar
Hobbes
Topix Fanatic
Posts: 1120
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:09 am
Experience: N/A
Location: The OC

Re: Down is the new up!

Post by Hobbes »

You can still get the M50 down quilt kit from T-H for the same price I got it back in December:

http://thru-hiker.com/kits/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Note that his kit includes 12 oz of 900FP - he imports it from Europe & provides a certificate in the packing manifest.

It's not just the price of down that's going up - actually, nothing is going up, it's (freshly printed out-of-thin-air) dollars which are rapidly losing value, hence reduced portions and/or price increases.

As for the quilt kit, for $170, it's a pretty sweet deal to have a 25 degree down quilt that weighs around 17 ounces. (Yes, the M50 liner/shell only weighs 5 oz, and mine is slightly oversized. I've seen reports of people building even lighter summer quilts.)
User avatar
Wandering Daisy
Topix Docent
Posts: 6640
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:19 pm
Experience: N/A
Location: Fair Oaks CA (Sacramento area)
Contact:

Re: Down is the new up!

Post by Wandering Daisy »

I read the article this morning too. Now is a good time to buy. I also think that other gear is going to increase in price. Prices have been kept a bit low during the down-turn. They have to raise sometime. This may have a big impact on sleeping bags where the raw material (down) is high. However, in a down sweater, where the amouont of down is small, the labor costs would be more of a factor in price increase- unless this is used as an excuse to raise prices of ALL down gear. You are still paying primarily for brand name, labor and marketing.
User avatar
gary c.
Topix Fanatic
Posts: 1479
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:56 pm
Experience: N/A
Location: Lancaster, CA

Re: Down is the new up!

Post by gary c. »

If anyone has been thinking about buying a down sweater of jacket now is definately the time to do so. It seems like all of the manufacturers/retailers have been giving some very good discounts the last couple of months.
"On this proud and beautiful mountain we have lived hours of fraternal, warm and exalting nobility. Here for a few days we have ceased to be slaves and have really been men. It is hard to return to servitude."
-- Lionel Terray
User avatar
oldranger
Topix Addict
Posts: 2861
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:18 pm
Experience: N/A
Location: Bend, Oregon

Re: Down is the new up!

Post by oldranger »

Let me get this straight. the cost of Down is $28 dollar a pound. A down sweater has maybe 5-8 oz of down but they cost anywhere from $80 to $200+and an increase in the cost of down is going to raise the cost of the sweater significantly? At $40 a pound the cost of down would not be the biggest portion of the cost.The increase in cost certainly won't make me rush out to buy an old (new) one unless I was in dire need of one (which I am not). Wait until people in third world countries start making a living wage and see what that will due to the cost of down products!

Mike
Mike

Who can't do everything he used to and what he can do takes a hell of a lot longer!
User avatar
tim
Topix Expert
Posts: 516
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:36 pm
Experience: N/A
Location: Bay Area

Re: Down is the new up!

Post by tim »

oldranger wrote:Let me get this straight. the cost of Down is $28 dollar a pound. A down sweater has maybe 5-8 oz of down but they cost anywhere from $80 to $200+and an increase in the cost of down is going to raise the cost of the sweater significantly?
A decent rule of thumb would be that the wholesale cost (i.e. what North Face sell it to REI for) is double the raw material cost (that covers North Face marketing, staff, profits, etc.). Obviously there's a lot of variation depending on brand vs no-name etc. Then REI's retail list price is double again (that covers REI's stores, staff, etc.). So if the price of down has gone up $16 per pound and you have 8oz in a sweater, that's $8 in material costs but say ~$30 at retail. Not huge but not insignificant even in a $200 item.
User avatar
rlown
Topix Docent
Posts: 8225
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:00 pm
Experience: Level 4 Explorer
Location: Wilton, CA

Re: Down is the new up!

Post by rlown »

So, Paul and I took Friday off and floated in his 12' scull boat down the Feather River out of Marysville. Waterfowl hunting of course. We saw only 4 honkers and got all of them. I only fell in the river once, about 15 mins into the journey when we saw the geese at the first gravel bar. We floated the river down and then used his 2hp to try and get back to the launch site. We were definitely too big for the boat. :o

Enough backstory. Big birds. As I sat on the back porch yesterday plucking and cleaning my birds, i got to thinking where does down come from?. It's kind of a duh if you have a dead bird in your lap, but then you put that exact search in google "where does down come from". :eek:

I did not know they harvest down live. Heck, it's scary enough when you do it on a dead bird. First the outer feathers cover the down, and then there's the down underneath. With two birds I could have stuffed a pillow, but given its harvested from live birds for our usage, that seems a bit cruel.

Anyway, a bit of food for thought.
User avatar
Rockchucker
Topix Expert
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:22 pm
Experience: N/A
Location: Bishop, CA

Re: Down is the new up!

Post by Rockchucker »

I thought only certain companies harvest down on live birds? I really don't agree with live harvest.
I'm no suture for my future.
User avatar
rlown
Topix Docent
Posts: 8225
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:00 pm
Experience: Level 4 Explorer
Location: Wilton, CA

Re: Down is the new up!

Post by rlown »

but which companies? I've no clue. I've lots of down products from REI, WM, etc.

I'm kind of looking to the quilt builders/ others who purchase down to add insight here as they get their down from somewhere. Yes, I'm now as bugged about the other down bag builders.

A tangent: they stopped foie gras in Sonoma. Cruel. um.

I am an NRA member, but not a PETA member, btw. I do not like cruelty or sloppy..
User avatar
Rockchucker
Topix Expert
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:22 pm
Experience: N/A
Location: Bishop, CA

Re: Down is the new up!

Post by Rockchucker »

rlown wrote:but which companies? I've no clue. I've lots of down products from REI, WM, etc.

I'm kind of looking to the quilt builders/ others who purchase down to add insight here as they get there down from somewhere. Yes, I'm now as bugged about the other down bag builders.

A tangent: they stopped foie gras in Sonoma. Cruel. um.

I am an NRA member, but not a PETA member, btw. I do not like cruelty or sloppy..
Exactly how I feel, not NRA or PETA. Aside from cruelty I also don't like waste. Empathy is a big part that, to me, makes us human.
I'm no suture for my future.
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 39 guests