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schmalz wrote:
Can you explain your reasoning? I'm totally open to changing my habits but would like to know more as to why you think that. My thought is that if I place the canister in a place where the bear cannot move it then I risk less by not messing with the bear than trying to deal with it in the dark. Can they really move a cannister out of a depression with a bunch of big rocks in it? I don't see how. Is the logic that allowing bears to mess with canisters might make it easier for them to learn how to open them?
They don't belong in your food or your space. We're trying to keep them wild. That means know your surroundings and potential bear threats. and be defensive almost to the point of being offensive.
There is a caveat. Once, the Bear was a momma bear, and we didn't know her cubs were behind us. That's the only time to back off.
Otherwise, you have to teach a bear to go be wild and not look for an easy meal. Always important to keep a clean kitchen as well.
I'm going to get flack for saying this, but I've only used bear canisters a couple of times in 45 years of backpacking. The system I've been using has worked flawlessly. I simply keep my food in nylon stuff sacks, and the majority of the time I sleep within ten feet of that food. I usually put the food sacks in my pack. Every day I spray the sacks and pack with spritzes of simple household ammonia, and have I never been hit in 45 years, after over a hundred trips to the Sierra. And it doesn't affect the taste of the food in any way. I should add that I also sleep with a can of Counterassault right next to me, and will, and have used it on occasion. I observed a yearling bear from a distance one evening, maybe it was a two year old, walk up to my pack, and as soon as he got within wind, jerk his head away, and then go back for more. He again jerked his head back and quickly trotted away and was gone. I think the entire bear canister meme is flawed. I completely understand and agree with the necessity of preventing bears from accessing human food. But use of canisters should be voluntary, IMO. And why hasn't the Park Service approved fabric based bear bags which can hold more food and are much easier to pack? I'd consider carrying one of those, along with the ammonia spraying routine. My buddies and me have also hung food successfully for just as many years. Some will say that's simply luck. But as it stands, I'll risk the penalties and continue NOT to use canisters, until someone comes up with a better idea.
lensman137 wrote:And why hasn't the Park Service approved fabric based bear bags which can hold more food and are much easier to pack? I'd consider carrying one of those, along with the ammonia spraying routine. My buddies and me have also hung food successfully for just as many years. Some will say that's simply luck. But as it stands, I'll risk the penalties and continue NOT to use canisters, until someone comes up with a better idea.
AS has been often said - you can make the same mistake over and over out there, and believe it's not a mistake until the day you pay the piper.
It does not matter that you have never had an issue - you clearly have been extremely lucky. Because bears DIE every year after people let them get food repeatedly. They are the losers in the deal.
Ursacks FAIL repeatedly, so they do not pass the testing necessary to be approved.
Canisters are best because they are easy, foolproof, and the vast majority of the time when used properly, they save the bears and our food.
You can take risks with bears' lives all you like - some day you will pay the price - or the bear will.
I for one will not allow anyone in my hiking group to hike with me without having PROPER FOOD STORAGE. I do occasionally hang food in areas where bears are less habituated, but most of the time in the Sierra, I suck it up and carry the can.
schmalz wrote:
Can you explain your reasoning? I'm totally open to changing my habits but would like to know more as to why you think that. My thought is that if I place the canister in a place where the bear cannot move it then I risk less by not messing with the bear than trying to deal with it in the dark. Can they really move a cannister out of a depression with a bunch of big rocks in it? I don't see how. Is the logic that allowing bears to mess with canisters might make it easier for them to learn how to open them?
They don't belong in your food or your space. We're trying to keep them wild. That means know your surroundings and potential bear threats. and be defensive almost to the point of being offensive.
There is a caveat. Once, the Bear was a momma bear, and we didn't know her cubs were behind us. That's the only time to back off.
Otherwise, you have to teach a bear to go be wild and not look for an easy meal. Always important to keep a clean kitchen as well.
Bears are very, very smart and some have figured out how to break into canisters.
The more you let them fool with the cans, the more time they have to figure it out, or roll it away into water, off a ledge, into a canyon, etc where you can't find it.
I also shoo away begging squirrels - which gets me called a meanie, but they deserve to live WILD as they are supposed to. Our food is extremely unhealthy for wild animals.
longri wrote:I push the canister about three feet from my tent, sometimes less.
On my most recent outing I left it in the vestibule.
One can do that a lot of times before a bear visits.
Then that habit changes - a lot.
Oh, don't be so silly. Mr. Bear isn't going to eat me.
I'm not silly - you are. You're inviting injury when the startled bear does as bears do, and defends itself when suddenly the big sack sits up and surprises them... the only bear related injuries in Yosemite happened just like that.
At the best, you have a ruined tent and a fed bear that is one more step closer to being a dead bear. At the worst, you're injured and bleeding, bear is a dead bear. Guess who loses the most?
Talk to someone who's spent some summers on trail crew... a friend who is the most bear-vigilant hiker I know has some hair raising stories. One of the crew got a care package from home, with candy in it. Rather than store it safely with the kitchen supplies, she put it under her pillow so other trail crew wouldn't take 'em. She woke with the bear licking her face! Could have been a very dangerous situation and they were very lucky....
k. let's not get silly here. Where a can is mandatory, use them and use them correctly. Don't feed the bears. This thread wasn't about can certification, as we all don't do that as far as i know.
Use what is right based on the area. Defend your food. Keep a clean camp, and definitely shoo away the squirrels, unless it's hunting season and you're not in a park. They are sooo tasty.
AlmostThere wrote:Rather than store it safely with the kitchen supplies, she put it under her pillow so other trail crew wouldn't take 'em. She woke with the bear licking her face! Could have been a very dangerous situation and they were very lucky....
I keep my food in the canister. Come on, stop trying to push my buttons.
