Boy Scouts of America

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gdurkee
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Re: Boy Scouts of America

Post by gdurkee »

Scouting is highly leadership dependent. A troop is only as good as the people taking the kids out. I don't think it's in danger of dying out, however irrelevant -- even anachronistic -- many of their rules and baggage are. Between the mid-80s and late 90s, there was definitely a dip in scouts doing backcountry trips. The last 10 years or so, they're increasing again.

One of my disappointments is there are very few -- almost no -- groups that take girls into the backcountry. Not sure what the problem is, but you never see girl scouts. YMCA and some church groups are mixed and usually seem to be having more fun than too many scouts on death marches.

The other sad thing is the amount of lying that scout masters do to claim ignorance of a regulation. Some have actually coached the boys ahead of time to tell rangers etc. that, if asked, they only have xx people traveling together when it's actually over the limit.Nothing like setting an example of honesty. If they're going to somehow portray themselves as "pure" -- banning the corrupting influence of gays and atheists -- you'd think they'd hold honesty as an absolute. Alas, no. Not all troops, certainly, but a significant number.

I'm totally supportive of anything or anyone that gets kids into the backcountry and does so safely and responsibly and, one hopes, with a certain eaglelitarianism (heh, heh. Small -- very small -- play on words).

g.
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Ross939
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Boy Scouts of America

Post by Ross939 »

My thoughts are that BSA has seen a significant decline in their membership nationwide in the past 10 years, especially in more urban areas, largely due to the publicity of their gay ban. In addition, they have probably also seen a considerable withdrawal of funding from NPO's to the point that now their only funding sources are coming from fundamentalist Christian organizations. Scouting has much work to do to fix their problem. First they will need to lift the ban. Second, to survive they will need to pick up new major funding sources, as well as a new demographic of members, as they will surely lose probably 80% of their current funding sources as well as a huge chunk of their membership base, which, right now consist of conservative fundamentalist Christian families, and don't get me wrong, I am not attempting to degrade anyone's personal religious convictions, just stating that BSA has a pretty big uphill battle to survive this controversy.


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rlown
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Re: Boy Scouts of America

Post by rlown »

It doesn't even have to be getting kids into the backcountry. Camping is a great start to get kids (both sexes) used to being "out there." I used to tag along with my Mom who lead a girl scout troop as well. Even short hikes around new areas were a good intro for them. Plus they learned about setting up tents, fires, and cooking.
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Scouter9
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Re: Boy Scouts of America

Post by Scouter9 »

So, if you don't know, the potential change being considered by BSA-National was to be discussed in a February meeting, at which point the matter was put-off to May, 2013. This is to allow the vast number of lobbying groups to weigh in, and there was indeed a good deal of shrieking by conservative factions within Scouting. Of course, this is in the context of BSA's board of directors including major corporate entities that have openly and strongly advocated on the board for a modernization of the policies.

Also to be clear, the proposed change was specific: that BSA-National would drop its policy, but that the matter would be decentralized to each "Charter Organization" for each Troop. The Charter Org would have the discretion to set policy in either "direction" -- meaning status quo or more egalitarian approaches.

Not discussed often so far are two details to this approach:
--1) it's consistent with current practice, allowing Charter Orgs to form insular units that only admit persons of a particular characteristic, such as Islamic Temple Troops, Vietnamese-only Troops and the most common, LDS-only Troops;
--2) it shifts liability for discrimination suits to the Charter Organizations, and the Troops. THIS is the big detail that 's behind a great deal of concern: Yep, full-employment act for professional plaintiffs and lawyers seeking to sue BSA units, for easy cash where there is no legal defense fund. Church-based groups that might choose to keep rules consistent with their beliefs (in a manner established to be consistent with their rights under the Constitution of the United States, one should note) would now be singularly exposed to suits and attack, rather than "National" with its insurance policy and legal defense fund.

So, although I personally hope that modification of national policy comes to fruition, an examination of the realities in the situation might illuminate the decision-making process for persons actually involved in producing and supporting programs for their sons in their own community, and that it's not all about hate and bigotry. Some would prefer BSA-National simply adopt a broad, non-discrimination policy guideline and then carve-out an ability for Charter Orgs/Troops to deviate from that on particular issues other than those impacting established protected classes.

If you're actually involved in the Scouting program, supporting a youth program and making things better around you, then you're currently receiving information enabling you to voice your opinion to "National". I suggest, whatever your message, that you do so.
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mokelumnekid
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Re: Boy Scouts of America

Post by mokelumnekid »

Thanks Scouter9 for that info and perspective. We live in a time when the "old" somewhat monolithic cultural assumptions are no longer at play. And this spins up in many ways.
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bluefintu
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Re: Boy Scouts of America

Post by bluefintu »

Hi All,

I've been absent on this site for awhile. I'm the new Scoutmaster for my son's Troop, (We just joined two years ago, left another BSA troop). Otherwise, the troop we joined would have disappeared, gone. It was down to maybe 4-5 scouts coming to the meetings. My troop has been around for over fifty years and so far we got five scouts last year and three so far this year. It's looking good for our troop, next year my 10 year old Webeloe will join and some of his friends. The thing with my troop is finding another adult just to camp. Backpacking trips is even harder to find. I have more mother's (god bless them) that will go car camping with us than the dads.

I'm a backpacking nut, just love it, but I've planned and canceled a few trips due to not having another adult. I canceled a trip next weekend, due to not having another adult. Just in the last few months were all car camping trips, such as a private beach or ranch in Santa Barbara, Mt. Pinos snow camping (8400ft and very cold) and we did a 17mile canoe paddle down the Colorado River a few weeks ago.

I tell the Scouts and parents that these trips we go on, there is now way they will do it themselves and have some kind of outdoor experience, plus the kids may earn a merit badge. My thing is the mountain where I maybe of some help.

I don't want to get in the political stuff with BSA, I watch my scouts, no scout should be alone with an adult without another person present. It's crazy stuff the BSA is going through.

Don
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sekihiker
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Re: Boy Scouts of America

Post by sekihiker »

I was part of a scout troop in a small rural town next to the foothills of Tulare County. The troop was sponsored by the local Presbyterian Church and the scoutmaster was its pastor. He was an extraordinary man and more than twenty eagle scouts came out of this small troop. We were an outdoors troop and went on many hikes. Every summer, the scoutmaster took the troop in long trip that usually started in Mineral King, ended at roads end near Cedar Grove, and included a side trip to Mt Whitney. A report for two of the trips can be found at the link below. The scout troop became coed sometime around 1970. I guess the girls just camped and hiked. I don't think they went through the ranks. Clearly, the scoutmaster saw that scouting needed to evolve. It's a shame that changes in scouting have become so painful and protracted.

Even in the 50's and 60's when I was in scouts, I knew of parents who refused to let their boys join a troop because they suspected troop leaders might be pedophiles. One of my cousins was an example and he was really disappointed that he missed out on the scouting experience. By the way, all three of his sons became eagle scouts.

http://sierrahiker.home.comcast.net/~si ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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LightRanger
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Re: Boy Scouts of America

Post by LightRanger »

I became an Eagle when I was 16 (Troop 111, Stanton, CA). I wasn't involved in Scouts after that because it was right around the time that we moved from Orange County to Colfax and I was too active in sports to be bothered to find a new troop. I credit Scouting, and my dad, with a lifelong love of outdoor recreation. I had a ton of good times on Scout trips--including with fireworks and water balloon launchers, but I disgress. ;)

All that being said, I will not allow my future children to participate in a discriminatory organization like the current BSA. I feel super strongly about this and I've almost mailed my Eagle award back to the BSA over it.

Here's hoping the delegates do the right thing in their vote on Thursday. Unfortunately, even if they vote in favor of allowing openly gay Scouts, they'll still only be halfway there.

I feel for this guy:
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Scouter9
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Re: Boy Scouts of America

Post by Scouter9 »

I think the matter actually goes to vote on the 24th. I saw news this morning suggesting it was today, but I think that's just the opening of the meeting(?).

Either way, if you haven't been following the news, there was an interesting development last last month: the local Council for Salt Lake City and the LDS church both came out in support of the proposed revision. Yes, this appears to be precisely opposite to the stance taken in the past and it doesn't mean the local stake committee agree (one near us voted 17-1 against the proposed revision), and it's particularly significant if you understand the percentage of units, and therefore voting power in BSA, that the LDS controls.

I don't recall if I pointed this out above, but the BSA also forbids actively heterosexual youth. You see, whether the fellas lust for Sam or Samantha, they're not supposed to act on it while Scouts. There is currently no policy for Metrosexualism.
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Scouter9
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Re: Boy Scouts of America

Post by Scouter9 »

I now see more news, suggesting the votes are today.

I also thought it might be useful for folks to get to read the BSA President's position on the proposed revision, published as an op-ed:

"...Scouting is a youth program, and any (...) sexual conduct, heterosexual or homosexual, is contrary to the virtues of Scouting... We are unaware of any major religious chartered organization that believes a youth member simply stating he or she is attracted to the same sex, but not engaging in sexual activity, should make him or her unwelcome in their congregation..."

FULL TEXT: http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2 ... s/2351907/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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