Hiking with 7 people

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Splash
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Re: Hiking with 7 people (Now 5)

Post by Splash »

Hi Everyone,
Well we're down to 5 now. It should make for a more manageble trip. I changed the trip based on everyone's concern of the daily mileage for the group. The new route gives us one more layover day...The new intineary is as follows: 8 days leaving end of July. Glacier Point to Clark Fork Creek; Next day to Ottaway Lake; Layover at Ottaway; 4th day hike to just below Edna Lake; 5th day hike to Turner Lake ; 6th day is a layover at Turner; 7th day hike down the Triple Peak Fork to Merced High Sierra camp ; 8th day to the Valley.
Anyone stay at Turner before? I read it has fish; anyone with any experience? Is it worth staying two days? Is it a managable cc hike? I am not really thrilled with staying at MHSC but it's about half way between the Valley and Turner (24 miles). Is there any place close to MHSC that we could camp?

Already planning tune up hikes. I am going to Rancheria Falls end of the month; just as soon as the road opens.

Splash...
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oldranger
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Re: Hiking with 7 people

Post by oldranger »

Splash,

Turner, is probably the least desireable destination in the area--small brookies. I would much rather do a lay over or 2 a few hundred yards below where the Red Peak Pass trail crosses the Merced Peak Fork. This gives your group the option to explore up to Edna and down to the narrow little lake a mile or so downstream from the campsite (10" rb but incredible views). Since except for a few hundred feet of uphill it is all downhill it is possible to make it all the way to the valley in two days from this location. If you decide this option, pm me for easier way to Edna (not obvious when you are there or from the map)

Mike
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markskor
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Re: Hiking with 7 people

Post by markskor »

Once again OldRanger is spot on with his assessment of Turner Lake... but then he does tend to think in terms of the great trout possibilities over all else. The man knows his priorities; probably why we hike together.

Not knowing how much emphasis your group places on world class trout fishing – (You are passing close to 3 of the top 5 Yosemite Trout destinations – Lower Ottaway, Edna, and Harriet.)…yes, hard to get to but…
Highly suggest using/planning your stay-over days at these named trophy lakes and not at a stunted Brookie haven.

Oh, BTW, Been to Edna twice now with Mike, (from two different directions too), and he has yet to show me the easy way up. ;)
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oldranger
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Re: Hiking with 7 people

Post by oldranger »

Markskor.

Read more carefully, "easier" not "easy." [-X I've taken 4 routes to Edna, none easy!

Mike
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Scouter9
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Re: Hiking with 7 people

Post by Scouter9 »

I am late to the thread, but want to add kudos to Oleander/Elizabeth for an excellent posting that I know took time to produce! I put together and either lead or "accompany" group trips into the High Sierra and see the wisdom and experience set out in the posting.

If it's not too late to kibbitz, I would give responses to some of the early questions. I think you should organize down to 2 stoves that your group is familiar with, figure out how many boils you intend by plotting out every meal, every cup of coffee, every washing...plus a few more, and then ensure that each backpacker can assemble and use the stove individually. This reduces group gear weight, ensures you have adequate but not way-extra fuel, and reduces the likelihood of stove accidents. Burns from flares, stupid moves or spilled boils can be deadly when the stakes are "high country", and losses of fuel from inattentive cooks makes for crunchy cold food. ;)

I would also suggest that you minimize the number of meals that are done separately, if you want to reduce overall weight. If the group decides on breakfasts such as Oatmeals/Nido/Tang/Cranberries on Day 1, Granola/Nido/Tang/Apricots on Day 2, MH Egg Scramble/Taco Sauce/Nido on Day 3, then repeat (for example) you can plan out volumes and pack the canisters much more efficiently. Add an intended cup of hot water for each person to use for cocoa, coffee or tea and you've got a luxurious meal that's easy to cook in group by splitting tasks and easily-predicted fuel needs. When you've got all adults who can carry "the difference" it may be less important, but if you've got a group that NEEDS to minimze weight, this is the only way I've found to manage the food volume/weight. We do it for lunch and dinner, also. Of course, standardized meals make for an easy split of costs. It can be hard with adults who have emotional issues over working together with others, but also functions as a pretty good "canary" for issues that can arise on trail.
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TehipiteTom
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Re: Hiking with 7 people

Post by TehipiteTom »

Scouter9 wrote:Of course, standardized meals make for an easy split of costs. It can be hard with adults who have emotional issues over working together with others, but also functions as a pretty good "canary" for issues that can arise on trail.
Ain't that the truth! I led Sierra Club trips for a decade or so, and in my experience it was the people who wanted (expected!) exceptions from the group experience (menu, packing guidelines, etc.) who were most likely to be a pain in the neck in other ways.
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markskor
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Re: Hiking with 7 people

Post by markskor »

Interesting to consider all the ramifications of large group dynamics…RE: food,
Or… Another good reason to go solo.

Sure pre-packaging all lunches and breakfasts into daily communal packages (good eats?) would indeed save valuable bearcan-space and weight. This would be great idea if on a boy-scout trip where everybody listens, but with adult hikers…right. I know one hiker who, for whatever reason, carries 10-pounds of oatmeal along on top of the regular food menu, and another who carried the complete works of Charles Darwin. (Both are admired hikers and seasoned pros too.)

Having played the pre-packaged/ pre-paid/ number-of-campers-along game before, and trying to co-ordinate everyone’s pack size, special needs and individual idiosyncrasies with dropouts and who carries what meal and which one is used on what day - crapola…boggles the mind.
If you can make it all work and satisfy everybody, you are either a former supply sergeant or extremely lucky. I say do what you can do with dinners but…avoid the confrontations and let each one carry what they want. Yes, communal dinners are best, definitely preferred but let each do his or her own lunches; breakfasts I can go either way as personally I distain a big trail breakfast.

Possibly I am getting bit crusty but even on our HST group hikes, we insist everyone in attendance be self-contained with any sharing of gear confined to stoves/fuel/ kitchen and water storage/treatment…and each person is then only responsible for one group dinner package... (Usually a gourmet feast unless Mike is cooking). This way each can then decide for themselves what special extras will fit into their packs. Embrace the canaries! If someone breaks ranks (whatever), you lose nothing ...(well, maybe one dinner).

BTW, Right now you say the group has decreased from 7 to 5, which is a much more manageable Sierra number, but (if history repeats itself), do not be too surprised if somebody else drops out last minute too.
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TehipiteTom
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Re: Hiking with 7 people

Post by TehipiteTom »

markskor wrote:Possibly I am getting bit crusty but even on our HST group hikes, we insist everyone in attendance be self-contained with any sharing of gear confined to stoves/fuel/ kitchen and water storage/treatment…and each person is then only responsible for one group dinner package... (Usually a gourmet feast unless Mike is cooking). This way each can then decide for themselves what special extras will fit into their packs. Embrace the canaries! If someone breaks ranks (whatever), you lose nothing ...(well, maybe one dinner).
Of course, that's a relatively small group (between 2 and 6 people) all of whom have lots of Sierra experience and are pretty self-reliant to begin with.

It's when you get a) larger groups and/or b) relative n00bs that it starts to make a lot more sense to coordinate more of the logistics.
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rlown
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Re: Hiking with 7 people

Post by rlown »

i'ts all a dance in a group, and you adjust as you plan towards the goal of the trail head. I've introduced at least 5 people to the back country and it's a learning experience on both sides all the way.

It's not crapolla, mark. It is what it is.

Heck, even the stove/fuel planning is important if your main stove/fuel guy falls off the list. In our group hikes, i demand we have two stoves. I think on the last HST old fart hike, we had 4 stoves? So wrong, planning wise, but ok if you're after every member being self-sufficient.

It takes planning and last minute adjustments. Even assigning dinner duty per night might fail if one falls out.

Mark does have a MountainHouse Beef stew that serves 4 circa last decade that you can borrow as a backup.. :D

Don't sweat the planning.. makes it all easier at the trailhead.
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Silverfox
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Re: Hiking with 7 people

Post by Silverfox »

Hi Splash,
Four years ago I planned a 9 day trip (80 miles) across Sierra's including a summit of Mt. Whitney. My original group was 7 people, we did a pre-hike 3-day/2 night 20+ miles with significant elevation gains, and I had everyone load backpack with additional weight to simulate the 9 day trip. Three people in the group struggled and self determined that they would not make the more difficult 9 day trip. This may help you to find out who will be able to hang.

Silverfox
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