Seeking Bigfoot Encounter Stories

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AlmostThere
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Re: Seeking Bigfoot Encounter Stories

Post by AlmostThere »

SilentGiant wrote:Hello All,


AlmostThere: It's not surprising that you have not seen or heard anything bf. related. Most people don't. The forest is vast, people are noisy and most intelligent wildlife will make itself scarce at the approach of humans. We're penetrating a vast expanses of wilderness on a thin network of trails and roads. Most of us find it easy to follow the path of least resistance, be it game trail, indigenous trade route, F.S. trail, fire road, or mountain roads. Even considering all of those in their totality I'd assume that the majority of the space we consider to be thoroughly explored is in all actuality a very small area surrounding these thoroughfares. The remaining 99% is quite a bit of space.

I am search and rescue, and trained in tracking. I look at the ground all the time, whether leisure backpacking (when I also often go cross country) and practice identifying tracks of all kinds.

I also grew up in the Sierra. I also know many people on trail crews, backpacking and wilderness guides, and people who basically make their lives out of being out there. The majority of my search team have deep rooted ties in the outdoors here.

I am not the sort of person who would miss such hints. Neither are most of the folks I spend time with, or the folks I hike with. I grew up in a tiny town in the foothills, all my family were hunters and no one has seen or said anything - and they would have.

There were two boys in school who swore Bigfoot existed, but they had no claim to fame there - they admitted they'd never seen one, or any trace.

I have, however, seen the Sierra red fox and had no idea it was a rarity to see them. Also spotted bear, cougar, and many other prints all over, as well as bear sightings, fisher sightings, beaver, weasel and a number of others. Even porcupines, which no one ever seems to see either.
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dave54
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Re: Seeking Bigfoot Encounter Stories

Post by dave54 »

SilentGiant wrote: ...Dave54: I don't believe that the Patterson/Gimlin film has ever been debunked. Many have tried including the author Greg Long and a man named Bob Hieronimous. Although Patterson had a few holes in his story and was a bit rough around the edges, he passed away a while ago, going to his grave insisting on the authenticity of the footage. For the past 50 years, Bob Gimlin (the man who accompanied Patterson during those searches) has withstood public scrutiny and ridicule while making nothing in terms of any kind of profit. To this day he will freely talk to anyone that wants to about the film and he has proven to be a man of high integrity by many who have met and known him. I am somewhat on the fence but I tend to believe that the film is authentic. There's a pretty thorough breakdown here if you're interested: http://www.bfro.net/news/korff_scam.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Yes, it's from a pro bigfoot organization but not many others have invested the time into researching and putting it together in one place....
I have read and researched all the debunking attempts I could find. There are much better attempts than the one you posted. All failed. There will always be 'true believers' no matter what evidence is presented, and I will not get sucked into a discussion here. You have the right to believe anything you want, whether Jimmy Hoffa is really living in his UFO base in the Bermuda Triangle, the P-G film, or the world is secretly controlled by the Trilateral Commission. :lol:

i completely dismiss the line of argument that it's all unexplored. As pointed out earlier, many, if not most, here hike off trail extensively. We see bear and deer carcasses frequently, scat, tracks, and all other forms of animal sign. Yet no one has seen a bigfoot. In my many years in the Forest Service I pored over thousands of high resolution aerial photos. I have seen bear, deer, and elk on the photos, and twice an unclothed couple in amorous embrace (they just thought they had privacy). No bigfoot. I have seen many fleeting glimpses of large animals I could not identify -- none of those rise to the level of proof of bigfoot.

There are new species discovered in our back yards all the time. The new species of butterfly discovered in Lassen Volcanic NP, a new species of orchid in Shasta NF, and the new species of fungus that actually was a new genus -- all within the past few years. All of these are small, no new large species. The odds of a viable population of hominids living in an area as developed and explored and visited as the Sierra Nevada are astronomically remote.

So why do people keep claiming to see them? Many reasons. As you pointed out a sizable number are outright fabrications, a well concocted story that never really happened, submitted for the author's personal reasons. Some are third party hoaxes, like the teenagers in a modified gorilla costume in Plumas County a few years back (mid 1980's?). They generated a lot of 'sightings' before a local reporter tracked them down. Some are misidentification of bear, elk, or deer or other animals. And some are psychological creations, seen in the mind but not by the eyes. An analogy can be made to the sightings of leprechauns in Ireland to this day by credible educated and successful people that pass polygraph tests with their tales. Or elves and trolls in mainland Europe, Britain's faeries, or Jinn in the middle east -- same phenomenom. Some researchers put Christianity's angels and flying saucers/aliens in the same category.

So we fall back to the argument of absence of proof is not proof of absence. Although we cannot absolutely dismiss the existence, there also is no reliable evidence. As of now bigfoot is nothing more than folklore and amusing campfire stories.
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rlown
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Re: Seeking Bigfoot Encounter Stories

Post by rlown »

Google Earth had a bigfoot overlay at one point with dots on the map and accounts linked to the dots. Not sure what happened to that map but it's probably still out there in the google community somewhere. Funny how the witnesses never had a camera.
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Re: Seeking Bigfoot Encounter Stories

Post by SilentGiant »

Hey guys,

A couple thoughts.

First off, I didn't say it's entirely unexplored. I said or thought I was saying 99% unused. I also find it hard to believe that anyone including enthusiasts have examined all of the evidence that's been presented. There is some evidence so I don't understand how you can say "there is no evidence" or "it's all fabricated". Those are both patently false blanket statements.
I've heard plenty of skeptical arguments in my time and frankly most of them are as open ended and myopic as the thing they are trying to debunk. I appreciate the testimony of qualified outdoors people who have logged time and have not experienced this phenomenon, but I think some of you may be missing my point. I'm not trying to start any arguments.

With all due respect, I appreciate the answers and opinions, but I have to say again, I'm not trying to prove or disprove the existence of bigfoot. I am researching stories from those who believe they have had encounters or seen sign of these creatures in the Southern and Central Sierras.

Again, I am interested in talking to those folks and I don't have the motivation, time or desire to convince anyone to become a "believer." As Robert Anton Wilson said “Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence.” Why would I want anyone to do that?

To reiterate, 75-90% of the sightings I personally investigate can probably be explained as something else, but there are enough out there (including my own) that I think there is some validity to this phenomenon. This is either because of the evidence collected and presented to me, because of the witnesses' credentials (ie: trained observers such as Forest Service employees, military personnel, field biologists and law enforcement) or because of my own experiences and observations on followup field investigations.

I'm probably won't reply any more to challenges to the basis or value of my area of interest. If anyone wants to take a stand for or against the reality of these creatures, you can find lively discussion on sites for skeptics and proponents alike such as C.S.I., the Bigfoot Forums and others. Take your pick, you'll find dogmatism and certainty on both sides of the aisle. I would invite anyone who is interested in actual research on this subject, get off of the internet and into some books. I have a loose list of a few of my favorites that I periodically add to and distribute to anyone that shows an interest. Yes, some are not worth the paper they are printed on so I didn't include them on the list, but some of them are great reads filled with footnoted, well researched information. Have a go at it or don't. Makes no difference to me.

You're free to think whatever you think. At least you're thinking! Just do me a favor and carry a camera when you're out there. If you see or hear anything just remember this thread and give me a holler.

Thanks again for your time.

(Some Bigfoot Books)
On the Track of the Sasquatch- John Green
This is one of the cornerstones for bigfoot research. I highly recommend it. Although it was published in 1973, it gives a great overview of the subject. Anything by Green should be seriously read and considered.

Abominable Snowmen: Legend Come to Life- Ivan T. Sanderson
The bible of the theory of global population of and distribution of bigfoot and related upright hairy beings. A must-read book.

The Locals- Thom Powell
This one is hard to find, but one of my favorites. Try Ebay or Amazon. A quick, exciting read.
Discusses some topics considered controversial in the bigfoot research community.

Bigfoot, Sasquatch Evidence- Dr Grover S. Krantz
A fellow BF researcher once said to me, “Read this book. Then read it five more times.” Another building block for Sasquatch research.

Sasquatch: Legend Meets Science- Jeff Meldrum, Ph.D.
Unbelievably thorough… the Introduction alone will have you on the edge of your seat.

Meet the Sasquatch- Christopher Murphy
Contains the most info on the best evidence to date, and it is a recent book. Tons of Photos!

Raincoast Sasquatch- J. Robert Alley
Lots of stories from the NW Coastal Region.

Sasquatch/ Bigfoot:
The Search for North America's Incredible Creature- Don Hunter & Rene Dahinden
Rene was one of the original Sasquatch hunters and a fiery personality as well.

Bigfoot! The True Story of Apes in North America- Loren Coleman
This is the guy that does Cryptomundo (the website). It’s a pretty solid overview of his quest for BF info.

The Hoopa Project- David Paulides (Also see Tribal bigfoot by same author)
A recent year long study on the Hoopa Reservation in Northern California. Witness interviews with a forensic sketch artist. The results may surprise you.

North America’s Great Ape: The Sasquatch- John Bindernagel, Ph.D.
A wildlife biologist researches and analyzes the bigfoot phenomenon. Since it’s publication, he has actually observed a bigfoot in the field.

Discovery of the Sasquatch- John Bindernagel (exploring the concept of de-facto discovery/ pre official recognition)

Where Bigfoot Walks: Crossing the Dark Divide- Robert Michael Pyle
Written by a naturalist… Ruminations on the phenomenon… Only read this after you have read the others and still haven’t had your fill.

The Klamath Knot- David Raines Wallace (Skeptic- well written and researched)
Historical Bigfoot- Chad Arment
Bigfoot: The Yeti and Sasquatch In Myth and Reality- John Napier
Impossible Visits- Christopher Noel
Bigfoot of the Blues- Vance Orchard
Valley of the Skookum- Sali-Sheppard-Wolford
Enoch- Autumn Williams
Visits From The forest People- Julie Scott
Bigfoot Field Observers Manual- Robert W Morgan
The Beast Of Boggy Creek- Lyle Blackburn
Recasting Bigfoot- Gian J Quasar (Fraught with typos but still pretty good. Written by a debunker who argued himself into believing that amongst the confusion there is some truth to some of the legends)

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rlown
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Re: Seeking Bigfoot Encounter Stories

Post by rlown »

one body is all that is necessary. Most of your credible witnesses carry weapons. If you saw one dancing outside your window and you had a weapon, and it was scaring you, what would you do? right through a vital organ.

No body to date. Like we need to read fiction.
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AlmostThere
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Re: Seeking Bigfoot Encounter Stories

Post by AlmostThere »

It's not like I'm telling you they don't exist....

I'm just telling you there has not been one shred - not a track, not a siting or story of one - that would make myself or anyone else I know think they are anywhere in the Sierra. I've actually talked to a lot of folks about all kinds of things including Sasquatch ("isn't out there") giardia ("had it before") wolverines ("don't live here anymore" (that was before sightings of them on motion sensor cameras) or grizzly bears (some people think they interbred with black bears here).

And I find that interesting - unlike many, I do occasionally see animal remains, and plenty of tracks. Grid searching through the lower elevations you find all kinds of stuff, from old mining junk and cans dating back to the 1800s, to arrowheads, to bear beds, bear prints, deer beds, shed antlers, and all manner of things.

There is a much easier way for you to gather EVIDENCE than arguing on the internet. Go set up some motion sensing cameras up and down the areas you think the Sasquatch lives. When you get some credible shots, go there and start grid searching around until you come up with something physical and compelling.
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Re: Seeking Bigfoot Encounter Stories

Post by rlown »

i think we need the body.
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AlmostThere
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Re: Seeking Bigfoot Encounter Stories

Post by AlmostThere »

I'm now wondering why the cams that are spotting the wolverines haven't picked up any bigf..eet?

A body would definitely quash all the question and doubt, fer shur.
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Re: Seeking Bigfoot Encounter Stories

Post by cmon4day »

dave54 wrote:
. . . There will always be 'true believers' no matter what evidence is presented, and I will not get sucked into a discussion here. . . .
[/quote]

Dave, Judging by the length of your response, it sounds like you "got sucked in". :lol:
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Re: Seeking Bigfoot Encounter Stories

Post by oldranger »

SG

You wrote
We're penetrating a vast expanses of wilderness on a thin network of trails and roads. Most of us find it easy to follow the path of least resistance, be it game trail, indigenous trade route, F.S. trail, fire road, or mountain roads. Even considering all of those in their totality I'd assume that the majority of the space we consider to be thoroughly explored is in all actuality a very small area surrounding these thoroughfares. The remaining 99% is quite a bit of space.
As rlown noted the area capable of supporting a large biped is pretty limited and that also tends to be places humans visit.

1. Several of us avoid trails as much as we can. Myself and several of my hiking buds have a pretty good eye for tracks and such a creature should leave some.

2. Why would any creature avoid paths of least resistance? Bighorns and mountain goats are known to "prefer" airy, rocky locations. But I have run into goats on trails and have viewed many sheep tracks on trails but the closest to big foot tracks I have seen are bear tracks and barefoot people tracks.

3. I do know of a "Yeti" that lives in the US but he is a BLM smokejumper! :unibrow:

Russ,

I wouldn't shoot one (but then I don't carry)

Mike
Mike

Who can't do everything he used to and what he can do takes a hell of a lot longer!
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