Coping with injuries / sickness on the trail

If you've been searching for the best source of information and stimulating discussion related to Spring/Summer/Fall backpacking, hiking and camping in the Sierra Nevada...look no further!
User avatar
Trent
Topix Novice
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat May 22, 2010 5:08 pm
Experience: N/A

Re: Coping with injuries / sickness on the trail

Post by Trent »

I believe there’s been a misunderstanding about my post. Call it what you will; rescue, medivac, or whatever,,,,, what I’m talking about is the potential cost of a helicopter evacuation [if that becomes necessary]. That, and nothing else. I’ve met two different people with direct experience being evacuated out via helicopter and both got a bill for it.

Secondly, I have no connection with “Global Rescue” whatsoever other than I pay my annual premium. My post is and was NOT a spam for them. If you trek [or even just travel] to remote areas, having this sort of insurance, from whatever source, is something to consider.

And lastly, yes, you put yourself at risk every time you step out your front door. That’s not to say you shouldn’t go out the door. But trekking in the backcountry is a tad bit more risky than going out your front door. So you take a few small steps to mitigate that risk a bit. Such as having a way to communicate with the “outside world”.
User avatar
AlmostThere
Topix Addict
Posts: 2724
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:38 pm
Experience: Level 4 Explorer

Re: Coping with injuries / sickness on the trail

Post by AlmostThere »

The point is as I have stated it - medical care costs money. Rescue teams call in medical teams when treatment is needed.

You need to be factual - people making decisions in potentially dire situations need to understand the difference. Hesitating to call for fear of a bill will make things worse than they might have been in some situations.

The real solution is to contact your medical insurance to determine coverage before you go, and ask about additional riders.

Please stop telling people they will be charged. That is not true and unreasonable for anyone to base what will ALWAYS happen based on a whole two people you happened to talk to.

Not all helicopter rescues are medically necessary and you are doing your fellow hikers a disservice by perpetuating the rumor that everyone is charged.

Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk 2
User avatar
sparky
Topix Fanatic
Posts: 1029
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:01 am
Experience: Level 4 Explorer

Re: Coping with injuries / sickness on the trail

Post by sparky »

Trekking is something rich yuppies do in thier spare time. Traveling the mountains is a lifestyle. Big difference. I doubt you'll find any "trekkers" here.

Yeah im being a jerk....i know what you mean :-)
User avatar
rlown
Topix Docent
Posts: 8225
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:00 pm
Experience: Level 4 Explorer
Location: Wilton, CA

Re: Coping with injuries / sickness on the trail

Post by rlown »

AlmostThere wrote: County search teams DO NOT CHARGE. We never have and never will. We do not want people in serious trouble to hesitate to call and die as a result of not wanting to pay.

I appreciate the message you are trying to send, but you need to be factual. I do not know why you think search and rescue charges. We DO NOT.

The Park Service (as in national parks) will bill medical insurance for medical services rendered but again, YOU DO NOT NEED TO WORRY ABOUT INSURANCE OR CHARGES.

PERIOD.
If this is true, and I kind of believe you, why isn't that made clear on the county or NPS websites? If you only talk about the place you volunteer in, how does anyone know what happens in other jurisdictions?

EDIT: 8/26/12: I see you have lobbied your mgmt for new shirts. How about lobbying for great SAR documentation on either the county and NPS SAR sites?
Last edited by rlown on Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
sparky
Topix Fanatic
Posts: 1029
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:01 am
Experience: Level 4 Explorer

Re: Coping with injuries / sickness on the trail

Post by sparky »

I read a report on supertopo of someone rapelling El Capitan, needing rescue, then handed a ticket from the NPS. Wonder if that is covered by this insurance
User avatar
AlmostThere
Topix Addict
Posts: 2724
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:38 pm
Experience: Level 4 Explorer

Re: Coping with injuries / sickness on the trail

Post by AlmostThere »

rlown wrote:
If this is true, and I kind of believe you, why isn't that made clear on the county or NPS websites? If you only talk about the place you volunteer in, how does anyone know what happens in other jurisdictions?

EDIT: 8/26/12: I see you have lobbied your mgmt for new shirts. How about lobbying for great SAR documentation on either the county and NPS SAR sites?
If you look at other county websites, some of them do mention it - Malibu SAR does right there on the first paragraph. Some SAR teams do not have more than a paragraph on their sheriff's website. Our site is in its infancy - I'm not going to lobby for anything, they are doing what is planned on their own schedule and don't need the nagging. Shirts are a safety issue, websites are optional and nonessential to operations.

Most of the folks on my team would not have a clue that we need to mention it! Why would we have to? It would never occur to career SAR (it's a second UNPAID career) to even think about mentioning cost - we never charge, never have, never will, and not likely that any of the other volunteers even imagine that it would have to be said. We are too busy working so we can pay for our own gear and trainings.

That $8,000 was not for a helicopter ride. It was for medical treatment by EMS personnel. Otherwise it would have been a LOT more expensive! Helicopters used by SAR are funded by public agencies, which are funded by taxes, local or federal, and do not require reimbursement. Our medical evacs are usually done by a CHP chopper and sometimes by other volunteer choppers from the parks or Lemoore NAS - ours is not rigged for carrying a Stokes or any medical support whatsoever. We are all called once in a while to mutual aid SARs, in national parks and in other counties - my team has searched many times in SEKI and Yosemite - and so we have opportunities to talk to other teams, most of which are volunteer. Yosemite maintains technical rope guys to do big wall rescue - most ground pounders are volunteers from park staff, DNC and other areas of the park, and take time off from destruction of campfire rings or other park projects to search. Yosemite's water team has assisted on some of our water rescues. We all help each other out at ZERO cost to each other or the lost/hurt party.

We volunteers write off our costs for travel, trainings, gear, food, gas, or uniforms on our taxes! This is community service based activity as are most county search and rescue teams. My local team saves taxpayers on average more than 3 million dollars a year. In counties that are not fortunate enough to be able to build a volunteer based team, the sheriff's department must contract the work to someone (there are companies that do this). And I doubt they charge either - it's still tax money being spent to help tax payers.

And that is why I KNOW that county searchers here do not charge for rescue. Medical care is NOT the same. Different people, different service, different policy. My team does not have a lot of medical types volunteering for it. We have first aid trainings, and there are a couple of EMS volunteers, but if we do not have them with us, we have to call someone else in. Fortunately we excel in getting out there and finding people before they are medically compromised.
User avatar
rlown
Topix Docent
Posts: 8225
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:00 pm
Experience: Level 4 Explorer
Location: Wilton, CA

Re: Coping with injuries / sickness on the trail

Post by rlown »

Let's be real clear. We appreciate you and your groups dedication to rescue. You come off as representing SAR on this site for some reason; go figure. If the documentation for the public isn't right, that's valuable input to your SAR mgmt. Let them know.

Not sure why we'd care about Malibu rescue..
User avatar
dave54
Founding Member
Posts: 1327
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:24 pm
Experience: Level 4 Explorer
Location: where the Sierras, Cascades, and Great Basin meet.

Re: Coping with injuries / sickness on the trail

Post by dave54 »

County sheriffs have the legal authority to bill. They rarely do unless it is a really expensive and difficult operation, and the rescuee did something really stupid to need a rescue. If they do bill it is more common to bill the county of residence of the person rescued. The second county nevers pays. Instead it is a notice that one their residents needed a rescue.

I believe the NPS has a emergency fund that they can tap to cover rescue costs, similar to the Forest Service firefighting fund. The Forest Service often assists the local county Sheriff Dept, and the FS cost is usually charged to the emergency firefighting fund -- technically illegal under federal fiscal and accounting rules, but accepted with a wink and nod by the federal bean counters. BLM is the same. By law, the FS and BLM have no legal obligation or authority to engage in rescues or medical aids on public lands, but do anyway on moral grounds and absorb the cost rather than bill the county that has the legal jurisdiction.

The local fire dept or EMS can and will bill for their services. The bill is for the cost of rolling their equipment, use of the gear, and ambulance transport. They are not billing for the SAR team or use of a CHP helicopter. If you are transferred to a private air ambulance the money meter starts spinning at warp speed. This is what the rider on my health insurance covers.
=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~
Log off and get outdoors!
~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=
User avatar
justm
Topix Regular
Posts: 333
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 9:16 am
Experience: N/A

Re: Coping with injuries / sickness on the trail

Post by justm »

First off, thank you to the rescue people, who risk your own lives to save people in the backcountry!!! But I have to believe there's a huge bill in there somewhere. Maybe the rescue part of it is free...but I bet you rescue people are required, reguardless of the situation, by law to notify medical personal to be met at the arrival point.Maybe thats where the bills start to happen. Just putting this out there, I'm not an expert.
User avatar
AlmostThere
Topix Addict
Posts: 2724
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:38 pm
Experience: Level 4 Explorer

Re: Coping with injuries / sickness on the trail

Post by AlmostThere »

justm wrote:First off, thank you to the rescue people, who risk your own lives to save people in the backcountry!!! But I have to believe there's a huge bill in there somewhere. Maybe the rescue part of it is free...but I bet you rescue people are required, reguardless of the situation, by law to notify medical personal to be met at the arrival point.Maybe thats where the bills start to happen. Just putting this out there, I'm not an expert.

I'd suggest you call your local SAR reps and put the question to them.

We don't do that unless there's someone injured.
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot], khamike, paula53, sdchesnut and 117 guests