TR: Rush Creek to Thousand Island and some words of caution

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Re: TR: Rush Creek to Thousand Island and some words of caution

Post by jfelectron »

WD:

Thanks for sharing your experience.
Had we acted a bit faster the bag wouldn't have gotten wet but seeing water rush in as a torrent was almost surreal. I prob stared for 15 or 20 seconds before I sprung into action .

Yeah, I'm evaluating all my gear to balance UL with comfortable margins of safety for adverse events. We didn't have a control, but the additional body-heat of the dog certainly helped. He was of course one more thing to worry about keeping warm. When either of us or the dog started to shiver we shifted to trap more heat or deliver to one another better.

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Re: TR: Rush Creek to Thousand Island and some words of caution

Post by freestone »

By the way, I have never had a warm-blooded furry dog to keep me warm. Does it work?
The Inuit think so. A "THREE DOG NIGHT" is one heck of a cold night on the ice!
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Re: TR: Rush Creek to Thousand Island and some words of caution

Post by Wandering Daisy »

I think what is important in learning from this is that high altitude, above timber backpacking and camping is REALLY different from below timber below 10,000 feet stuff. The PCT hikers get by with UL gear because they move fast enough to camp each night at lower elevations. They do not specifically go out to camp above 10,000 feet, whereas I purposely plan on camping from 10,000 feet to 12,000 feet to experience that enviornment. Over the years I have also noticed that in spite of not being very comfortable (very claustrophobic), a full-on mountaineering bivy sack is very weather-proof. I think a good combination is a bivy sack with small tarp over.

There are no simple rules. Every extreme event requires immediate judgement calls. None of us can second guess what we would have done. I have had that "mind freezing moment" and then other times I have immediately reacted properly. Practice makes perfect. I have had lots of practice in really severe storms, whereas, a lot of California hikers do not get this experience. Most of the time moving camp in a storm is not a good idea, but sometimes it is critical to do just that.

I do not think a tarp per-se is the problem. In 1969 I spent 28 days straight in a tarp, and it snowed every day and never got my down bag wet. We did not even have stoves - had to build a fire to cook every meal. But we were a large group and in foul weather I think being in a larger group helps. With a large group, if one person gets their stuff wet, everyone gives up a little to keep that person warm. And yes, two people can fit into a sleeping bag! Body huddling works to conserve heat. I have done that many times when caught up on a ledge overnight on a climb.
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Re: TR: Rush Creek to Thousand Island and some words of caution

Post by maverick »

WD wrote:
I got out in the dark and used my handy sponge
Years ago I cut one of those super absorbent car washing sponges in half and it is
always in my bag for this emergency.
WD wrote:
Silicon coated nylon (used in the Tarptents) is NOT waterproof, it leaks under certain
pressures, such as a person's weight on the floor of a tent
Why one should carry a descent ground cloth which can help, though it will not help in
extreme cases.
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Re: TR: Rush Creek to Thousand Island and some words of caution

Post by SSSdave »

That weekend pretty much had a a similar foul weather forecast just like the MD holiday the weekend before.

Another lesson any time of summer given the level of weather information now available on the web, is that backpackers would be wise to learn how to better assess forecasted weather during their trips. The best source of that information is the NWS forecast discussions that often have valuable information available on what might happen days before typical TV weatherpersons report their simplified forecasts.

http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/mtr/forecast.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another thing a person can do during periods foul weather is likely, is note where dense groves of mountain hemlock are located as such groves often provide fine protection even when one does not have adequate gear. I have more trips without tents only bringing Gortex bivy's than with. Being out in the open inside a bivy is unpleasant if rains will be for hours so I usually will move my gear to such groves even though the bivy would end up atop some rather uneven roots and all. In the Thousand Island Lake area such trees are below the outlet about a quarter mile on the north side. As you found out most of the well used campsites on the northeast side of the lake along the JMT are quite exposed with trees mainly whitebark pines thin.

Also a good backyard sprinkler test on one's tent for at least a half hour before a trip can show where a tent will leak. Also flip it upsidedown part of the time to give the bottom tub a decent test.

During my first decade of backpacking, I seemed to catch quite a lot of intense foul weather that did much to make me wiser. I'm pretty much of the mindset mokelumnekid related. And what Wandering Daisy noted about the many backpackers that claim they have never encountered severe storms, I too have to believe they simply have not been out that much. Sobering is being in heavy rain of more than a couple inches that causes the brown duff material below trees to flow about the terrain like lava. Sometimes I have tented atop slightly tilted granite slabs because I know there will not be any issues no matter how much it rains. And yeah I always carry some synthetic chamois one can buy at auto parts stores in their car washing section.
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Re: TR: Rush Creek to Thousand Island and some words of caution

Post by SandStorm »

Thank you for sharing this story, Jonathan. An important lesson. One that sometimes must be learned repeatedly, and usually best learned from experience. Never forget it, count your blessings, and drive on.
Sobering is being in heavy rain of more than a couple inches that causes the brown duff material below trees to flow about the terrain like lava.
Good description. Got a taste of that last summer during a serious cloud burst. Luckily it was a layover day. :D
Last edited by SandStorm on Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TR: Rush Creek to Thousand Island and some words of caution

Post by DoyleWDonehoo »

While I have two lightweight one-man tents, both have floors of heavier waterproof material that keeps out water, even underneath me under pressure. But I am not content with that protection, I also add a layer of Tyvek cut to the tents footprint. It is very light and flexible and adds only a few ounces to the tent weight.
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Re: TR: Rush Creek to Thousand Island and some words of caution

Post by Wandering Daisy »

Footprints are fine for average moisture, but in a high intensity storm water still runs between the footprint and tent floor. The purpose of the footprint is to protect the tent floor from getting punctures. I am not fond of silicon impregnated nylon tent floors - I prefer a more robust waterproof material. My old single person tent, the MSR Microzoid, had a truely waterproof bathtub floor and when I once stupidely set it up in a duff-filled rock hollow which became a swimming pool, the tent was literally floating in water and it did not leak.

Mid-summery in the Sierra, even after an intense storm, the sun is shining in the morning so you can spend the day drying out. This is NOT the case in the Rockies. There, you can have a gully washer storm, followed by days of rain and freezing and it may be a week before you see sunshine again. Shelter failure is really not an option in that case. These conditions can also occur in the "shoulder-seasons" in the Sierra.

Between the UL trend, marketing by manufacturers and new tent models coming out every year without adequate testing, the backpacker has to be very skeptical nowadays of the weather-worthiness of tents being sold.

We are also all human- even after experiencing many extreme storms in the past, I still choose stupid tent sites at times. It is easy to get lulled into complacency after days of perfect weather! Like, "man I'm tired, its been a long day, put up the tent, its not a great site, but what the H".
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Re: TR: Rush Creek to Thousand Island and some words of caution

Post by DoyleWDonehoo »

Wandering Daisy wrote:The purpose of the footprint is to protect the tent floor from getting punctures.
True. While it helps keep the water out, mainly it is to protect from punctures. It may be great to have a sturdy waterproof bathtub, but if you are getting a bunch of pin-hole punctures from pine needles..
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Re: TR: Rush Creek to Thousand Island and some words of caution

Post by riverwalker »

Thanks to all. A lot of good advice and I appreciate everyone's honesty, especially the OP's. Good Stuff!
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