Giardia treatment?

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AlmostThere
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Re: Giardia treatment?

Post by AlmostThere »

I'm advocating nothing. I'm curious why hand sanitation came into a conversation about Giardia, because I have never heard that it had anything to do with contracting it. I've heard that people will mistake the sorts of germ activity caused by poor kitchen habits for a Giardia infection, however.

Given the life cycle of Giardia, (http://www.stanford.edu/class/humbio103 ... ecycle.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), if you are contracting it from poor hand sanitation, either you are shedding cysts yourself and already have it, or you need to stop handling poop from other sources. And wash your hands more often.
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markskor
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Re: Giardia treatment?

Post by markskor »

AlmostThere wrote: I'm curious why hand sanitation came into a conversation about Giardia, because I have never heard that it had anything to do with contracting it.
Poor hygiene has everything to do with giardia transmission. All it takes is one member of your hiking party who did not wash his hands properly before cooking up a community meal, or the burger boy who did not wash up before making your lunch at some 395 burger joint...or...

As I understand it, ~20% of the earth's population (maybe more?) acts as a natural host/harbors giardia with no symptoms ever shown - transmitters with natural immunity? Giardia is also ubiquitous - everywhere (in every city's water supply), but in such small concentrations that it is almost impossible to contact from tap water.

Research shows that the worst Sierra water is typically found at Trail Camp but even up there you would have to drink 200 gallons in a day to even have a 50% chance of contracting this pest ...BTW, much higher concentrations of giardia are allowed in San Diego's municipal water supply.

Filter, use chemicals, or utilize a Steripen if that's what makes you feel safer, but you cannot filter, treat, of zap anything that is not there in high enough concentrations to begin with.
Additionally, Giardia does not overwinter where snow is prevalent - cold kills even the cysts when subjected to temperatures at or below freezing after 30 days. With our typical Sierra winters, thus giardia has to be re-introduced each season at high altitude and can only be transmitted anew through a complex, reproductive life-cycle passed on/thru by mammals: deer, beavers (a lot of beavers up there?), and cows, horses/mules, which seem to the primary Sierra hosts for giardia Sierra transmission other than from humans. Research also shows that all horses (~10%) and mules (~15%) pass giardia daily and these trail biscuits are the primary agent by which giardia is re-introduced yearly. (Maybe mandating those horse diapers would be a good thing as all too often see piles of droppings where stock crosses water.)

Lastly, I recall the words of one of my UCLA Parasite professors: "There has not been one case of giardia that has been totally 100% attributed to someone merely drinking high altitude Sierra water...(poor hygiene is always suspect instead".) Being as it takes 10 - 14 days after consuming high enough concentrations of giardia to show symptoms, how do you really know where you got it?

Wash your hands!

Mark (MS Parasitology UCLA, 1975)
Mountainman who swims with trout
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AlmostThere
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Re: Giardia treatment?

Post by AlmostThere »

I'm just puzzled. Pretty much everyone I've backpacked with uses a long handled spoon and eats out of a bag, not handling anyone else's food, and yet I personally know too many people who have had giardia hiking only in the Sierra Nevada?

Sure, okay, whatever.
quentinc
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Re: Giardia treatment?

Post by quentinc »

There are quite a number of cases of Giardiasas for PCT thru-hikers after going through the F&G sections (roughly from the 14 Freeway (southwest of Palmdale) to Kennedy Meadows), and it's almost certainly cattle that are to blame. I doubt that people's hand sanitation somehow deteriorates as they go through those sections only.

Lucky for me, the symptoms have been quite mild and are almost gone. Even the other time I mingled with Giardia, the symptoms were nowhere near as bad as what I hear about. Still, not happy about it....
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freestone
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Re: Giardia treatment?

Post by freestone »

Research shows that the worst Sierra water is typically found at Trail Camp
I would think this location would have a fecal contamination problem as well. None the less, I was there solo, and drank the water untreated at the base of the switchbacks with no ill effects. I did however, try to keep it under 200 gallons!
There are quite a number of cases of Giardiasas for PCT thru-hikers after going through the F&G sections (roughly from the 14 Freeway (southwest of Palmdale) to Kennedy Meadows), and it's almost certainly cattle that are to blame. I doubt that people's hand sanitation somehow deteriorates as they go through those sections only.
As for the PCHers, the contamination of giardia could have happen 2 weeks prior to entering the high country, somewhere south of Palmdale, although I have heard that the tap water at Kennedy is suspect. There is also Hiker Town in Palmdale where there is a whole lot of sharing going on.

We are constantly touching our face and private parts as in wiping the sweat from our brow after taking a leak.
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TahoeSarah
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Re: Giardia treatment?

Post by TahoeSarah »

Years back, i was diagnosed with the dreaded giardia, took a course of flagyl, but a few days after the first course of meds was done, the signature symptoms came right back. Doc said flagyl often requires a 2nd course, which i did, and that took care of it. He read to me right out of his reference book that flagyl often requires two courses. So if you only completed one course and it came back, you may need a second. I had no side effects at all from the flagyl.
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rlown
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Re: Giardia treatment?

Post by rlown »

markskor wrote: Lastly, I recall the words of one of my UCLA Parasite professors: "There has not been one case of giardia that has been totally 100% attributed to someone merely drinking high altitude Sierra water...(poor hygiene is always suspect instead".) Being as it takes 10 - 14 days after consuming high enough concentrations of giardia to show symptoms, how do you really know where you got it?

Wash your hands!

Mark (MS Parasitology UCLA, 1975)
I'm amused, and to quote:
BEDEMIR: And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped.
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sheeps' bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes.
BEDEMIR: Oh, certainly, sir.
Couldn't resist.. :D
quentinc
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Re: Giardia treatment?

Post by quentinc »

freestone wrote:
As for the PCHers, the contamination of giardia could have happen 2 weeks prior to entering the high country, somewhere south of Palmdale, although I have heard that the tap water at Kennedy is suspect.
I'm assuming the symptoms show up at least 10 - 14 days after entering section F, so that may not be until they are a few days past Kennedy. The tap water in F is suspect too, so the state park service has disabled all the water taps that used to be there north of the 14. I pity the people who go through there in June (one reason I'll never be a thru-hiker).
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Old_Hiker
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Re: Giardia treatment?

Post by Old_Hiker »

I used the SteriPen adventurer on my 3 day trip from Cottonwood Pass to Soldier Lake and it worked fine. I did a lot of research and came across of a couple of complaints .

[note: I'm decided to be nice and not make any disparaging remarks here]

One complaint about the SteriPen was the button was hard to push. I had no problems.

A lot of people were worried about the water that accrued on the threads of the bottle as you dipped the bottle in the water. What?? Were not talking about nerve gas. I doubt the small amount there would be a problem especially when all you had to do was wipe it off with a handkerchief. After thinking about that I realised that [for 20 years] I've been transfering water from my water bag to the cooking pot using a cup, which I never wiped clean! Lucky to be alive!
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murphtron
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Re: Giardia treatment?

Post by murphtron »

This is a sensitive topic, and I'm not entirely certain why. I guess because it's so personal and involves hygiene. And also because there's a large industry around water purification products and it's taken as gospel that water purification is required.

I think markskor provides the most rational response. In fact, this maps to what's preached in wilderness medicine conferences (my wife recently attended one in Squaw). Bottom line: people get all kinds of GI issues from many different sources. It's difficult, if not impossible, to attribute it so easily to giaradia introduced by water.

My rule of thumb: evaluate the water source. Is it a popular lake? Is it a creek with a popular lake or grazing/horsepacking upstream? Is it late season? Then I generally treat the water.

Is it a creek with little used trails upstream? Is it early season (or there's still lots of runoff)? Then I don't bother to treat the water. Why am I so liberal? Mainly because I have a strong stomach and rarely get ill. Other people are far more sensitive to stomach bugs, and are more cautious, as they should be.

Of course, my behavior is also influenced by my hiking partners. Some insist on always treating water. In that case, I go with what the party prefers. Not a big deal.

We always use iodine+vitamin C since all of our filters are clogged. :)
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