Water pH / quality in Sierra Nevada streams / springs / lak

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AlmostThere
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Re: Water pH / quality in Sierra Nevada streams / springs / lak

Post by AlmostThere »

Ditto - hiking burns a whole lot of calories. Getting your body chemistry out of whack in the high country is an invitation to disaster. You can start making really bad decisions if you're not feeding the brain properly.

For the sake of all my brothers and sisters in Search and Rescue who risk their lives getting out there to find people who make mistakes of this nature, as well as for your own health, I implore you to reconsider this plan. Fast at home and take sustenance when undergoing rigorous physical activities in remote places. You are compounding your risk exponentially by thinking you can do this, as well as the risk to others who WILL come looking for you.
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circusoflife
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Re: Water pH / quality in Sierra Nevada streams / springs / lak

Post by circusoflife »

Thanks Freestone for the post. I'm going through it right now. After I saw your link it occurred to me that I hadn't done a proper Google search of my own on pH - Sierra Nevada - lakes, etc...search terms. Preferring to ask first. But lo and behold I have found some articles...including for future destinations on the calendar this year.

Here is one on Gem Lake I am reading through. Numerous others I need to organize....

http://www.nospam.aslo.org/lo/toc/vol_3 ... 4/0825.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


As for the last two posts -- thank you for noticing my statement! I was wondering if someone was going to say something about that!

I hesitate as to how to respond because it would diverge from what HST is about, and perhaps what fellow readers on here are comfortable with. If we all met in a bar or something or on trail face to face, well -- perhaps it would be different. But there are limitations in the virtual world...
Communications is up to 90% non-verbal...

Let's just say the things I know about our human physiology (Body & Mind) go far beyond what is accepted by "modern science/medicine" let alone the general public. Besides, much "science" has been corrupted by commercial interests. Like all the anti-UV advertising (Hmm..selling sunglasses anyone?) ....when in fact...it is "not bad/to be avoided" if we understand it. Plenty of books and some videos on this...

But talking about this knowledge -- opens a pandora's box which (For the inquiring mind) could lead to many other tangent discussions. Many clues are on documentaries and linking together numerous science stories...and looking at things from a different perspective so to speak. Sometimes just asking "dumb questions" and having the persistence to get the "right" answer.

This upcoming summer in the SN won't be the first time for water fasting for a significant amount of time for me, nor being at altitude for a sustained period of time, but it will be a first for the combination. Perhaps the best answer I have is to offer a couple of video links to documentaries that may get one thinking...if one wants to know more you can PM me or if the moderators permit -- we can continue in this or another public thread. I got roasted by cyberbullies (After <10 posts on the theme) just for posting videos (Often from Discovery Channel, BBC, etc..) and a little explanation in another hiking related forum. Many closed minds...while the documentaries may seem unrelated...they are not...

Too often our brains shut off when we hear certain key words or encounter information which goes against "beliefs we hold sacred" - whether they be religious, or scientific, cultural, or otherwise.
Better to have KNOWledge than Be-LIE-fs.....

Enjoy!

Discovery Channel - Boy with Divine Powers - full doc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhMnSzOEe1E" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

or on Dailymotion in 5 parts - (u can see who uploaded it in 2008!)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6bb2j ... s-1-5_news" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Beautiful Truth - about cure for cancer, but really about regenerative capability in body
and distortion of the/our mainstream system...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvzDHGLEUyw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Forks over Knives part 1 of ?? - also about distortion (from milk and beef industry for example)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXo_Pi3 ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dutch Iceman - a sampling of what hidden powers are latent in all of our bodies...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... RsNh0eB-Io" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Marathon Monks of Mt.Hie - Japan - 20 minutes of an hour long documentary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06oMxdt40A" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Many, many, many more videos...available for the inquiring mind...soon we'll find out who wants to open and who wants to stay closed...
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Water pH / quality in Sierra Nevada streams / springs / lak

Post by ScoobyMike »

Sole reliance on water & sunlight, does this mean you will be nude? :-) that really would be traveling light...
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Re: Water pH / quality in Sierra Nevada streams / springs / lak

Post by kpeter »

Well, Circus, I think I understand where you are coming from. Your beliefs may be an important part of your spirituality and/or world view. I sense a strong skepticism about science, and acknowledge that science is a process and not a simple accumulation of facts; that science is always in flux and revises itself as it investigates the world.

While your views are your own just so long as they concern you, you do need to ask yourself some important questions about how your views may affect others before you undertake your trip. If you become too weak to complete your trip, will you expect others to help you, perhaps at great expense, perhaps at personal risk to themselves, or at the least at great inconvenience? If I came across you and thought you needed help, I would abort my own trip to help, regardless. Are you willing to put other people in that position? One way you could have it both ways is to carry a substantial supply of energy bars sufficient to feed a retreat from the wilderness "just in case" you can't make it on a water diet.

Getting to your original question, I have no specific knowledge about Ph of Sierra water. I always assumed that a lot of Sierra water is very "hard" with lots of dissolved minerals--but obviously that would not be true of recent snowmelt.

With regard to Sabrina--the campground just downstream from the Dam has water from a tap where I refilled on my trek last summer. Whether they get it from the reservoir, stream, or deep underground I do not know. It tasted good.
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Re: Water pH / quality in Sierra Nevada streams / springs / lak

Post by markskor »

Another red flag arises here with the brief comment; "one reason to never wear sunglasses or glasses."

Sorry but...Have you ever been to 11,000 feet Sierra before? Ever walked a few sun-cupped miles under a bright azure sky across a blinding snow field? The sun up there can really tear you up.
While I can deeply respect and admire both your spirituality and holistic beliefs, you may be biting off a bit more than you can digest safely here. (Oops, sorry again, you said you were not taking any food either).

Hope your plans work out - keep us posted.
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Re: Water pH / quality in Sierra Nevada streams / springs / lak

Post by rlown »

why do we care? You should either be buying lures, flies, or a new sleeping bag about now. We've seen naked people out there before. Go with your choice of god. If you get burned, we'll help if we're around. If you're sick, we'll help if we're around. If you choose, just dance around in your burnt state, we might ignore you.

Just don't be stupid. It's a burn fest at 11k. water is water. If you don't eat, you'll soon be in convulsions.
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Re: Water pH / quality in Sierra Nevada streams / springs / lak

Post by Wandering Daisy »

I will ingore the stupidity of your venture, but answer the question about pH of Sierra water. Rainwater in equilibrium with granite is acidic- pH of about 5.6 This is how water can erode rock. Water in a stream located high in the moutains, comes from rain, contacts granite. Much of the Sierra is granitc. Some of the sierra is NOT granitic. In general though, most of the high Sierra water is at least mildly acidic. There is usually not enough contact time in flowing water to reach the pH of equilibrium, so I suspect lots of water is only slightly acidic. As the water flows to lower elevations it leaches minerals from the rock that it flows over and oxygenates. These processes change the chamical nature of the water. Acidic water tastes "sweet". The primary source of alkaline water is from groundwater- such as water from springs and from desert surface water where evaporation concentrates the minerals. Acidic water tastes good; alkaline water tastes flat, slimy and soapy. One thing I do not like about chlorine tablets to purify water is that the water is left with a really flat taste - becomes more alkaline. So one test of the pH of mountain water is simply to taste it. If it tastes good and sweet it is likely acidic. One place you DO have to worry about acidic water is stagnant water in some old mining areas where toxic minerals may be leached into the water. The pH of some of these waters is as low as 4.0. In general the rain and snow melt flushes out many stagnant water sources.

Acidity within limits is not bad for you. pH of 4.0=not great; ph=6.0 probably OK for humans, particularly if you are talking short term consumption, not your life-long source of water. Fish, and aquatic life are more sensitive. Acidification of lakes due to air polution (like sulfur in the air brought into lakes by rain falling through polluted air) can cause lakes to become very acidic and kill sensitive aquatic life. Much of the tiny aquatic critters are feed for fish, so fish also die. I really do not remember if it is the acidity itself, or the fact that the acid waters contain sulfur, and thus the acidity forms weak sulfuric acid. High mountain lakes are naturally acidic so it does not take a lot of polution to send the pH very low. This is a matter of the "buffering capacity" of the water. It simply cannot absorb (neutralize) much added acidity so tends to quicky become overly acidic. Rainwater in equilibrium with pure granite (silicon dioxide) is low pH but it does not contain lots of sulfur or other toxic ions. Dump that water on a mineral vein and let it sit a long time, and bad stuff can leach out. In fact, water in contact with mineral veins for geologically long times is common in groundwater. Surface water gets flushed out much quicker.

There are data out there for some of the Sierra water bodies. Google USGS, Sierra Nevada, water quality or look throught the CA DWR website called "CDEC".
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Re: Water pH / quality in Sierra Nevada streams / springs / lak

Post by gdurkee »

Well, is this not a great return to the 60s or what? However tempting, I'll pass on the nutso aspects of your plan -- at least confine your trip to Yosemite! My northern colleagues are so much better and gung-ho at SAR than I am... .

Wild Daisy has it right. Most of the Sierra is granite. You get very few minerals in the water except in areas of metamorphics and volcanics. So maybe what you want is a geologic map. Between Yosemite and southern Sequoia Park, metamorphics are mostly as roof pendants right at the crest of the Sierra. I suppose, then, the pH of the water could be very, very slightly different in runoff from those areas.

I guess I will weigh in with one actual danger: hypernatrimia. That's an electrolyte imbalance caused by TOO MUCH water and NOT ENOUGH electrolytes. It's manifested by an altered mental state, seizures and death. I've only seen it in people who are chugging water and not eating enough (to get some salts/electrolytes). Distance runners sometimes get it, which is similar to what you'll be doing.

In my youth, I ran into a guy who thought he'd get all his sustenance from drinking water and eating (!) powdered lemonade. Met him on the Half Dome trail. Called a helicopter for him the next day.

I love the smell of the 60s in the morning; it's the smell of overtime!

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Re: Water pH / quality in Sierra Nevada streams / springs / lak

Post by maverick »

I will not condemn you, call you stupid, or belittle what your doing because of not
understanding what you are doing, that would make me intolerant of another
persons views or beliefs.
What would be nice if you would shed some light (briefly) on what type of experience
you have doing this, something that will put are minds at ease, because just saying
that you are going to the Sierra for 2 weeks, and planning to live on water alone does
come across as someone who doesn't know what there doing, are plain nuts, or are just
trying to get a rise out of everyone here, if you get my drift.
We care about our fellow backpackers/human beings here at HST! Your safety, and the
safety of those impacted by your experiment/quest are all important to all of us.

No where did the OP write that this was going to be attempted nude, that was just
"ScoobyMike" injecting his humor.
Professional Sierra Landscape Photographer

I don't give out specific route information, my belief is that it takes away from the whole adventure spirit of a trip, if you need every inch planned out, you'll have to get that from someone else.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
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Re: Water pH / quality in Sierra Nevada streams / springs / lak

Post by markskor »

circusoflife wrote: During this upcoming trip I will be water fasting (No food of any kind)... as the UV rays that enter our system can purify our blood (which is 80% water) better. It's called UV transmittance.
UV light kills viruses / bacteria INSIDE our body...

The interaction of UV light inside our body is similar to what a Steripen does...one reason to never wear sunglasses or glasses / contact lenses of any kind. Most contacts also block UV.
True enough, OP does not specifically say naked, but does somewhat imply his wearing limited clothing in that anything blocking UV rays - (sunglasses - clothes?) will seriously interfere with his intended fast/Sierra pilgrimage and/or bacterial cleansing process where UV light is absorbed through the skin...whatever.
Personally, I am intrigued by this entire episode but worried that his extended fortnight odyssey may prove a bit too much "exposure".
Like I said intrigued - Post a trail report afterwards please.
Mountainman who swims with trout
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