Obscure Route Planning

[RoguePhotonic]

I have found that a 10-day ration period to be the best for me

Yeah your whole point on food is true. If I do 15 days without resupply then I wont have everything in my bear barrel for probably a week. I typically can't get more then 6 or 7 days worth of food in my Bearikade Expedition. And like I always tell people out there that I simply sleep with the rest in my tent. Up until now I have not had a problem with anything coming after my food. It's one of those things I just shrug and say what can you do?

I also pack all my non-perishable food at home for the entire summer. It saves money

This is true but has different problems such as you can't always find a place to mail a package to but you can buy food from their store. Or the typical problem of packing food you really like but after 2 months on the trail and you get to that package to just say yuck to everything you packed.

I think it would be very cool if people brought me supplies but the most obvious problem is keeping on schedule. I'd have to plan a hike with several blank days before meeting up with you so I can make sure I can get there on time. I did this last year with meeting up with my dad. My planned hike was going to meet him on Tuesday but he needed to come Saturday so I just threw in 4 extra days to blow anywhere I wanted and it worked out well.

Resupply is always a tricky thing. After three long trips I have most trail heads figured out but it still leaves planning hikes revolving around these places. Other issues show themselves such as fuel. I use butane canisters and because of the hazardous waste liability insurance required to stock these in your stores many don't do it. Some examples are Mineral king, Cedar Grove, Parchers Resort. All don't have those canisters. That notion alone was causing some problems with planning this year. The best solution is to drop packages off in person if possible so I can put fuel in them.

Your mile calculations are about right also. When I went from Windy Point to Marion Lake then from there to Amphitheater Lake both days were about 5 miles and took me 8 hours.

Fish the really small lake just above the first large lake.

I'm actually debating on not fishing at all this year to cut more weight out. my fishing gear weighs about 12 ounces total and I don't think I did enough fishing the last two years to justify taking it again.

I finally made a gear chart using http://www.geargrams.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and if I manage to switch out allot of gear this year I am still going to come in around 21 pounds without any food added. That's not allot but when your going cross country every bit counts.

Long ago when researching the Enchanted Gorge, I found this reference to a crossing the Black Divide

I don't think their route is the best idea for me because they came straight up from the floor of the Enchanted Gorge which would mean allot more gain and loss possibly taking longer then just going all the way around to the Muir Trail. Not dropping down looks like it could be a challenge as the Western slopes of Mt. Mcduffie look steep.

Pretty impressive that they went into that area starting July 1st. I was worried about crossing the Kings even getting there later. I thought if Rick is home while passing through he could advise me to the best place to cross.

[raphus]

Holy cow !
7 days in the large Bearikade !? The 15 L one !?
I know pack weight and food selection comes down to personal choices, almost a taboo for some people, but this is really surprising. I think a large majority of hikers can fit up to 8-9 days in a 10L canister (the common size) for comparison.
You must have a huge and heavy pack ! I guess I understand the Norman Clyde reference now...
No seriously, at least for the sake of your knees may I suggest you look for some advice from the ultralight community ? And why not an alcoohol stove ? You're not in a hurry, that's light, you can even simmer with some stove designs, and you can find the alcohol more easily than gas !
Anyway, my 2 cents... and I can't even help with your route planning !

[RoguePhotonic]

My pack isn't that heavy in terms of gear. I probably was around 25 pounds or less base weight this year and that is counting an ice ax but allot of my choices with food are bulky and don't fit well. For example I often eat cold cereal for breakfast and I will use a 12 ounce bag for 2 days and a 17 ounce bag for 3 days. These of course are very large and don't pack well and deliver very little calories for their bulk. The only alternative I used while out there was pop tarts. They are just as heavy but are 200 calories each. On better sections I would eat 2 packs for breakfast making for 800 calories. All around I prefer not to cook for breakfast since it saves time and fuel and I don't care much for oatmeal.

For lunch I would eat a whole mess of things. My primary source of usable calories would be Ritz crackers with peanut butter and honey on it. The result is those big tubes of ritz crackers and a whole plastic jar of peanut butter. I would follow that up with corn nuts, a beef stick, beef jerky, a beef and cheese stick and maybe some other little snack.

Dinner is normally a Pasta Side or any other type of those meals. On the best days I would have meat to add to it such as tuna packs or single serving SPAM. Add some block cheese to the top. I also would carry a seasoning shaker and a bottle of hot sauce much of the time. Most days after dinner I might eat a small packet of cookies.

The end result is living on crap food for months loaded with preservatives and also that they don't pack well. When I say I can only get 7 days of food in it that means very carefully packing everything in taking every bit of space I can and leaving out all my other scented items like soap. Also I would not be able to get the jar of peanut butter in and most likely a couple packs of jerky and maybe even one bag of cereal.

I don't know how many of you have gotten out hiking for at least a month but I learned the hard way that you have to really like the food you eat out there or you will hate it. It's not like on a weekend or a week long trip where you can take stuff that is not that great but it's light so you just deal with it. You quickly will find yourself dumping out most of your food or not even being able to eat it at all resulting in extreme energy loss. Finding what is good to eat hasn't been easy but I have done pretty well eating what I listed above.

Next year I think I will make some GORP for lunch to cut down on space and eat more energy efficient foods. The reason for the last 3 years I did not do any GORP is because that was all I used to eat hiking in 2008 and I burned out on it. Even last year when I picked some up just for a couple days of lunch I barely ate any of it. But if I make my own I probably can get some good results.

This thread certainly has gone from route planning to meal planning but that is ok.

[Cross Country]

Now we're talking efficiency and results. I have experimented a lot and educated myself very well (I believe). I believe we're talking weight input of calories and energy out put. A basic knowledge of nutrition is needed. The most efficient input is a combination of nutrients (proteins, carbohydrates (including sugar) and fats. On an extended trip vitamins and minerals are important. Take a mult. vitamin. Electrolyte balance matters which means in this case (backpacking at elevation) salt content of your body counts heavily. I do not have a degree in nutrition and would welcome any input from someone with one who has backpacked extensively.
Remember that this applies to an extended trip.
In the evening one should consume a large amount of protein at times. This is one reason to fish and eat lots of them (fish). In the evening eating fat is important for a balanced diet.
Hours before hiking, eating lots of carbohydrates, like pasta is beneficial
The only thing beneficial to eat less than 2 hours before hiking is sugar and only sugar.
The only thing beneficial to eat less than 1 hour before hiking is liquid sugar. The problem with most liquid sugar is that it has a horrible electrolyte balance.
Therefore the only thing beneficial thing to eat less than 1 hour before hiking is gatorade.
For the first 12 years of my backpacking life I was unaware of these things. Four times I hiked to Granite Lake from Mineral King and attempted to hike out in one day and couldn't quite make it out in one day. The fifth time I met a doctor and his 2 sons there and we were hiking out together. At the first summit we were conversing and I was drinking Gatorade (ga) and one boy asked his dad what ga was and his father replied that is was a salt solution. It has more sugar than salt. Does that make it a salt or sugar solution? Anyway, we continued hiking and got out at about 5:00. The only time I got out in 1 day. Later when recounting this story to a friend I realized that the reason I was able to hike out the entire distance in one day was because of ga. From then on I relied on ga extensively. I would even skip breakfast or lunch and just drink ga. I even tried skipping both to just drink ga (with mixed results). Skipping 1 meal for ga was ALWAYS beneficial but, or course, not satisfying. As humans (I'm one) we like to eat food. One food that is a disaster while hiking is trail mix. It has nuts. Nuts take 3-5 hours to digest. Trail mix slows you down. I cannot imagine how it could help you nutritionally. I experimented so extensively because I taught nutrition in public school for over 20 years. I believe I applied this general knowledge of nutrition to backpacking because I backpacked extensively and alway was EXTREMELY interested in efficiency. Let's face it: backpacking ain't easy. It's hard. Therefore the more efficient the better.

[Coops]

RP,

With respect to your interest in the area west of Observation and Shakespeare...I considered it myslef last year while on a trip through Amphitheater and Dumbell Lakes. I think it would be a fine area to explore, but extraction will be difficult. Unless you head back over Cataract Creek Pass, which I actually enjoy (there is a ledge on the North side of the pass that is key to doing this pass at low class 3 maybe even class 2), your only logical option is to come down from Dumbell lakes via their drainage. I did this last year and it was an absolute grunt even as an ultralighter. The old Muir Trail is drastically overgrown once you hit Cartridge Creek as well.
On my way up the Middle Fork of the Kings (heading back to toward Palisade Creek), I visually scoured the slopes leading up to the lakes west of Shakespeare and Observation for a logical way up or down. It didn't look safe quite honestly, and I couldn't find a good route; but as we all know, there's probably a way. If you go for it, just know that you may have to back track out of there.

[quentinc]

I can only fit about 6 days of food in my Bearikade too. Since the idea of living on liquid sugar doesn't appeal to me, I pretty much bring what I want (although many of the items are dried or dehydrated), including an inefficient loaf of bread. This goes back to the discussion on another thread about trade-offs in comfort.

But RP, you aren't serious about sleeping with food in your tent, are you? If I have food I can't fit in the can, I find a place near a large "class 3" rock, which I can climb but a bear can't (claws don't work so well on granite), and "hang" my excess food there. I've also done that on long trips through areas where canisters aren't required and I didn't want to bother with that monstrous, bulky contraption.

[RoguePhotonic]

All good points with food but the trouble with Gatorade is that it's heavy. I brought allot of it in the one quart packets but they weigh 2 ounces per pack. I might still get more of it though because it has value over just taste and you don't have to drink aspartame.

Here is my thought on a route from Dumbell Lakes area:



Maybe try to summit Mt. Shakespere while there. I do notice that it's spelled wrong on this map.

[RoguePhotonic]

But RP, you aren't serious about sleeping with food in your tent, are you?

Of course I am lol. I have spent plenty of nights sleeping with heaps of food in my tent. Makes you listen more closely when you hear something.

I have also had to leave food in my camp unprotected. An example of this is when I resupplied and went in to Cathedral Lakes. I set up camp then went for a summit push. I had lots of food that I could not get into the barrel so I just stuck it all in my kitchensink and piled some clothes on it to cover the smell and set out.

I've been lucky so far.

[Coops]

All good on the route, but you will really have to pick your way down to the lake west of Shakespere. I would suggest even going west of the "knob" at 11,000 feet instead of going over near the 11,200' contour where you have it drawn. The saddle to the west looks much gentler. Not sure on the descent to Palisade Creek. Certainly looks good enough on the topo. Will be a classic knee-buster and you may run into some scrub bashing there. That's an avy proned area and a lot of the trees are wiped out. I was confused in my last post about the descent to the Middle Fork, but that all makes sense now. Best of luck if the plan goes forward!

[maverick]

Getting to Observation Peak Lakes from Palisade Creek is steep, and very
rocky once you get out of the woodsy area, watch your footing. Once you get
near Lake 10565: (http://WildernessApertures.com/img/s11/ ... 7198-6.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )
it is best to skirt the shoulder of the peak to end up near the outlet of the lake, just
look for the right route.
From the cluster of lakes above Lake 10565 there is the lake that is shaped like a
heart on its southern end, here is a shot that is taken from the outlet of this lake:
(http://WildernessApertures.com/img/s11/ ... 7564-4.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
Follow the western shore toward the pass, class 3, here is shot looking back down
at the lake (http://WildernessApertures.com/img/s11/ ... 5717-6.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), and
head down to a small pond on the eastern side of the pass, about half way down
and into Dumbbell Basin.
Once pass the pond you will have to negotiate a series of cliffs by traversing down
to/near the small kidney shaped lake in the southwestern end of Dumbbell Basin.
Of coarse you'll be doing this route in reverse.
The views of the Devil's Crags are sublime, unfortunately there was a big fire at the
time of my visit, and visibility was not great, but acceptable near sunrise and sunset.
http://WildernessApertures.com/img/s11/ ... 1327-6.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Amphitheater Lake can be a photographers dream also, if the conditions are right.
Personally Cataract Pass is not a big deal, if the cornice is not large so to block access
thus complicating things a bit, it still is only a class 3 at its worst.