Green with envy over your beautiful photos

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copeg
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Re: Green with envy over your beautiful photos

Post by copeg »

17-40L seems to be the gold standard, and it a high quality lens. Since I prefer to use a cropped sensor camera body, I also use the 10-22mm, which has its issues (mainly color fringing and distortion) but also has good sharpness and contrast.
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Re: Green with envy over your beautiful photos

Post by fishmonger »

John Dittli wrote:
I shoot with expensive cameras, expensive lenses and work in expensive software on expensive computers; is that all necessary? Only if you want to make some large prints (and look cool at the shoot with those big white lenses;)
:D been there, done that
Image

I got rid of all that white stuff 9 years ago, and now carry black Nikon plastic lenses around. In fact, I just did a backyard comparison of some highly rated vintage glass with recent consumer zooms (see 50mm details here) and I had to rethink what I believed about what makes good optics. It's definitely not a factor of weight and size any longer.

When a lens that was allgedly the sharpest 50mm Nikon made in the 20th century gets blown away by their current entry level zoom, then at least in terms of sharpness, there's no reason to carry the cool metal lenses into the backcountry any longer. Maybe there's a difference with full frame sensors, but I doubt that sharpness will improve on a large sensor.

Obviously, the latest pro glass is going to be better than what I used 10 years ago, but the gap has come down significantly. A lot of prosumer lenses are just not as durable, but optically just as good as the high-end stuff. Lens speed, something pro lenses always had over the lower cost competition, has also lost a lot of its benefits due to VR and faster low noise ISO on new bodies. Viewfinder brightness and a few other things may still sway a lot of folks to buy lenses you can also use for self defense, but I'm done carrying 40 pound camera bags.

For Nikon DX, the 18-55mm Nikon VR lens is awesome for what it costs, how light it is, and how well it works in low light due to the VR stabilization. Add to it a Tokina 11-16mm or Sigma 8-16mm (wider, not as well built), and you have pretty awesome wide angle coverage. My 14mm Canon on a full frame body wasn't as wide as that Sigma is, nor did it have any less distortion (but it did cost $2500)
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Re: Green with envy over your beautiful photos

Post by John Dittli »

Boy would I like to loose some more camera weight, but I am happy about the 20 lbs I lost by not carrying the 4x5 or 645 anymore. Still, when lost Coyote pulled out his little 1lb point and shoot in Ionian basin, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't jealous.

I don't really keep up with the tech stuff so much, but isn't it well excepted that the new L glass is pretty much superior to most "vintage" glass?

I think it used to be that to shoot "ultra wide" you needed to go to a full frame camera, but with the new lenses coming out I guess that's not the case. Still can't beat the large file from full frame for big prints, which I depend on, though.

Also, I've always wondered about quality comparisons (pixel to pixel) of APS sensors vs their fullframe counterparts (ie Rebel vs 5d etc), anyone know of any test data?

JD
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Re: Green with envy over your beautiful photos

Post by fishmonger »

FX vs. DX sharpness discussion - gets into the details pretty well:

http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/di ... aps-c.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and it really only applies to Canon, since the only Nikon that has a sensor that good is the D3x and costs $7500. Until there's a 24mp D700 I'll stay with my small sensor, I guess.
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Re: Green with envy over your beautiful photos

Post by John Dittli »

Thanks Peter, that explains it pretty well. I'm still wondering though if all Canon sensors are created equal given the same MP (rebel vs 20D for example) (5d MK II vs 1D MKII).

Thanks again for the link

JD
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Re: Green with envy over your beautiful photos

Post by maverick »

Here is a long discussion about it: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/781852/0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Green with envy over your beautiful photos

Post by John Dittli »

Great info, thanks for posting Maverick

JD
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Re: Green with envy over your beautiful photos

Post by fishmonger »

John Dittli wrote:Thanks Peter, that explains it pretty well. I'm still wondering though if all Canon sensors are created equal given the same MP (rebel vs 20D for example) (5d MK II vs 1D MKII).
On the Nikon end of things, the D90 and the D300s (D200, D300) are all DX sized and 12MP, but there are slight differences in image quality. The quality of the filter on the CCD for example can be one factor, plus some of the post processing, although that only really matters for JPEGs. The difference between the D90 and D300 is so negligible that when I was deciding between the two bodies the sensor really was not a factor. They differ in weight, durability and features like max number of frames for bracketing, and th ability to meter with old non-AF lenses, and obviously price (about 100% more for the D300, 400% more for the D700).

I went with weight and cost overriding those few extra bracketing frames and the "weatherized" body, and am pretty happy I made that call. Even the D700, having a 12mp full frame sensor was something I was considering, but when I saw thiscomparison, I counted my dollars and realized that the D90 due to cost and weight would be idea for hiking for the next 2-3 years until the next generation brings pro sensors down to a more reasonable price point.
Last edited by fishmonger on Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Green with envy over your beautiful photos

Post by maverick »

Your welcome John.
Like Fish writes, features in the mid level cameras are really really good, and there
are a not a whole lot of things besides AF, shutter life, weather sealing, size, and a
few menu features that are different from the the pro models.
You are really best off shopping for the features you will need/use in a camera and
shop/choose accordingly.
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Re: Green with envy over your beautiful photos

Post by John Dittli »

With film cameras I never used to by the "pro" models for 35mm. I just needed something with an accurate and consistant manual shutter and to hold film flat. Image quality was never about the body, but about the glass. That's all changed a bit hasn't it?

I guess one of these days I should just do my own test between my 5d II and Rebel.

JD
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