Most remote location in the sierra?

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John Dittli
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Re: Most remote location in the sierra?

Post by John Dittli »

BSquared wrote:Wow, looks like the Absarokas (NW Wyoming) win it hands down! Interesting...
I saw a short film about some guys hiking to the furthest point from a road in the lower 48; it was near the Absarokas in Yellowstone NP. I think it was 30 some miles from the nearest road.

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Re: Most remote location in the sierra?

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quentinc wrote:I think off-trail and difficulty of access is a better indicater than distance from the trail head.
I'm in complete agreement; like White Fork Lakes or Woodworth Tarns. But, straight line distance is measurable.

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Re: Most remote location in the sierra?

Post by lostcoyote »

there's a good cross country route that leads north from colby lake and eventually crosses the GWD to get into the upper kern basin just south of thunder mtn. pretty remote - but close to the cloud canyon trail.

then;ale 2 miles west of observation peak seems pretty lonely... tho it's about 2 miles south of the JMT along palisade creek


what's the view like from the woodworth tarns looking up the enchanted gorge? is rambaud pass relatively easy (anyone here been over it?)
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Re: Most remote location in the sierra?

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Skied through there in '95, don't remember the pass as anything but a good ski.

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Re: Most remote location in the sierra?

Post by dave54 »

Why is it defined as 'distance from road'?

There is lots of corporate forest land around here that is well roaded according to the map. However, the roads are gated or blocked to restrict access. The company employees only seldom visit the area, and as a result there are tens of thousands of acres that get less visitor use than many wilderness areas.

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Re: Most remote location in the sierra?

Post by giantbrookie »

My own definition of "most remote" is similar to others who would say that truly remote is a function of the time spent to reach a place hiking from the car with more "points" awarded for off trail, given that one can hike for many miles on a trail and find oneself next to a packer party, but this cannot happen with off trail travel. Straight line distance, while easily quantifiable off maps may not necessarily reflect trail hiking distance (and time) and certainly not off trail distance. Just in looking at maps, it appears to me that the furthest (in straight-line distance) from a road is somewhere in the Middle Fork Kings drainage possibly Goddard Creek upstream of Simpson Meadow. I think one can swing arcs and find a spot that is straightline-distance further from road than Tunemah in that region, although I'm just eyeballing this off of a map.

For my own "most remote" I think of this in terms of distance and degree of difficulty of off trail hiking spent to reach a destination plus the overall hiking time spent getting there. By this definition, I'd rank Red Spur Lakes no. 1. The shortest off trail route is from the Kern-Kaweah R. and that is a fairly long off trail approach (although not horribly hard). I'm no John Muir, so others here may be faster (Maverick, Mokelumne Kid), but getting to Red Spur lakes in 2 days from anywhere would be a titanic effort for me (more than I'd care to break off in two days). The Dumbbells have quite a good cross country effort required but it wouldn't be quite as epic as trying to get to Red Spur in 2 days (2 very hard days but not as hard as the 2 to get to Red Spur--I'd try it were it not for the many places I'd like to stop on the way in). The remotest parts of Goddard Creek and Enchanted Gorge would, for me, fit into a similar (to Dumbbells) "very hard two days" to reach but not as hard as getting to Red Spur in two days.
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Re: Most remote location in the sierra?

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That's what I came up with, just east of Tunamah; too far south and you get into the arc from the South Fork Road.
I'm in complete agreement about different perceptions of "remoteness"; I should have titled the topic "furthest point from a road", as I was looking for a simple cartographic fact.
"Remote" is a state of mind and physical condition. Dumbbell Lakes feels remote unless you happen to be there when someone is doing it as a dayhike. Lower Cathedral Creek is only a few miles from the road and it feels VERY wild. We got out from Red Spur Lakes in a pretty easy two days over Carillon Col but still, it felt pretty remote. My guess is the meadow at the end of Ragged Spur is less visited than all of them!

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Re: Most remote location in the sierra?

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>>>"Remote" is a state of mind<<<

to this, i completely agree.

for me, feeling as if one is in a remote location has quite a bit to do with feeling isolated from the rest of the world - meaning [for me personally] no people around either. physical distance from trails helps but in the example below, not nessessary

i have been through ionian basin a number of times. i never really felt isolated there but while at tunemah (and even at tehipite which has a trail), i did feel a sense of isolation.... and that's a psychological state of mind based on feelings of being alone with nobody else around.
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Re: Most remote location in the sierra?

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Love the photos, especially #2, which seems me like a photographic Japanese print. I'm another of the "state of mind" folks when it comes to remoteness. A couple of days of true solitude (seeing no other people) when I'm solo and I fall into the sublime serenity of wilderness.

I recently spent 4 days without seeing another person in the off-trail parts of 9 Lakes Basin (I was going to Kaweah Basin and broke the big toe on my right foot, which prevented me from making it over Pyra Queen Col). With my movement limited, I found the opportunity to sit and take in my immediate surroundings a wondrous experience. The fact there were probably hordes of unseen people making their way up and down the High Sierra Trail a mile or so away only enhanced the sense of solitude.
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Re: Most remote location in the sierra?

Post by giantbrookie »

John Dittli wrote:We got out from Red Spur Lakes in a pretty easy two days over Carillon Col but still, it felt pretty remote. My guess is the meadow at the end of Ragged Spur is less visited than all of them!
JD
I had forgotten Carillon Col. Going out of most remote destinations (such as Dumbbells, Red Spur) is generally easier than getting in because of the net elevation loss (and lighter pack). I'd bail Red Spur in 2 days to Crescent Meadow (say Red Spur to Hamilton, then out from Hamilton) if my schedule forced me to, but I wouldn't want to try that going in. My wife and I bailed Dumbbells with one super easy day (to Amphitheater) followed by one spectacularly epic one (Amphitheater to South L. via Knapsack), but if the ease of hiking was the primary consideration we could have split this more 50/50 and made it a fairly easy hike out. I hear you about folks dayhiking into Dumbbells. We saw a group coming in from Lakes Basin while we were in Dumbbells. Never actually met up with them, though (just saw them in the distance coming through the pass).

As for the most remote feel, Red Spur and the basin downstream of Tunemah certainly have a nice remote feel (the latter may be my all time favorite), but the most remote feel I can remember was in parts of the "Bermuda Triangle" (trailless NW Yosemite). The north side of Kendrick Creek (instead of the more traveled south side) to Edyth is part of this, as well as the more accessible, but equally seldom visited, "Emerald Staircase" (string of unnamed lakes and lakelets downstream of Little Bear et al.) had the most remote feel of any places I've been to. The thick brush is what adds to the off trail degree of difficulty in these parts and probably reduces the visitation still further compared to other remote off trail destinations that don't require the same level of bushwhacking. Kendrick Creek upstream of Edyth would no doubt be in that category and then some but I haven't been there.
Last edited by giantbrookie on Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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