self-issued permits at wilderness access points?

[lambertiana]

There have been a couple times during the middle of the quota season when I was able to call the ranger at Mineral King and have them leave a permit in the box outside for me to pick up on a Friday night. But the last time I tried they wouldn't do it. It depends on which ranger you talk to.

They seem determined to give the whole minimum impact and wilderness rules talk every time. As someone else has said, they could look me up on their computer and see how many permits they have issued to me over the years, and realize that I could give that talk better than they can.

[richlong8]

Certainly, it must be that the personnel are following some sort of policy set down by Department of the Interior, National Forest, SEKI, etc; Is there anyone employed in the permit offices,or otherwise who would care to comment?

[AlmostThere]

Jennie Lakes Wilderness. Hike in less than 1/4 mile and sign the register - no names, just where you are from and how many people.

southern region of the Los Padres NF - no wilderness permits, free parking with an Adventure or Interagency pass. Same with the northern region, tho you will be paying for parking most of the time, they do not take passes in Monterey District.

I have never had any trouble whatsoever with permits, even in Yosemite. I reserve when I have to and do walk ins for everything else. I never go in from Happy Isles, however.

[balzaccom]

Hoover Wilderness, at Leavitt Meadows, you just self-register at the trailhead.

Emigrant Wilderness is a no fee, no limit, permit...and they will leave the permit for you in the box outside the door for your pickup...

The more people on the trail, the more likely you're going to have to register and work within a system...

[Wandering Daisy]

One change that would help weekend backpackers would simply to open the permit offices earlier Saturdays. If they cannot afford to pay for more hours, then simply close the office similarly early on Sunday evening. Not many people get permits on Sunday afternoons anyway.

I also agree that if you are a frequent user, you should be able to skip the "beginner's" talk and simply pick up your permit in a night box. How about a Wilderness "Frequent Flyer" program? I am in the computer system in Yosemite and lately when I have picked up a permit, they look at the database and just say "I guess you know the rules".

As much as the permit system has flaws, I still am a proponent of trail quotas and permits.

[bheiser1]

This is some great feedback, thanks everyone.

I'm not in disagreement with the need for a permit system. It would just be nice if it were geared more toward the needs of its users. I guess I can understand the mindset that says we need to be instructed on proper use with each issuance of a permit. But why can't it be like most other permit-enabled activities ... and require the instruction once and then issue a seasonal (annual) permit. Then just have trailhead self-issued "use" permits.

Anyway it is what it is ... it'd be nice to have a list of locations where self-issued permits are possible. I'm thinking a wiki might be good for this

[Herm]

Not a self-issue permit, but .....
When I obtained my permit in Bishop for entry on Piute Pass Trailhead, ranger entered my name, saw that I had done the permitting several times, and therefore did not go through any long, detailed talk about restrictions. He asked a few simple questions, and quickly issued a permit for entry the same day. In total, I spent about 5 minutes in the ranger station on a Friday morning.
Easy.
Herm

[bheiser1]

Actually I had a similar experience in August in Yosemite. The ranger asked if I'd had a permit before in Yosemite (I hadn't, though I've been doing this kind of thing for ... well, a long time). So I said "no", and she went thru the whole process. I was under the impression that if I'd been a frequent applicant she might not have had to go thru the whole schpeal.

My concern isnt' with the schpeal. It's with the fact that you need to be there ... in person ...

Here's an example. Say someone in the Bay Area wants to go to the Hoover Wilderness. The USFS sites indicate to get a permit there, you need to personally visit the USFS ranger station in Bridgeport. How's that practical on a weekend, given that the real purpose is to spend as much time as you can in the wilderness in just < 2 days? Even if they issue the permit via phone, and leave it in a "night box", you're still talking about many extra miles to drive over to Bridgeport ... for the sole purpose of picking up the permit ... after which you'll just turn around and drive back the trailhead.

Once again, it's not that the Permit system is a problem, it's that the logistics of it just don't work for most people that want to use it.

Hence why I'd like to create a list of areas where we can go in via self-issued permits.

I'm not sure why self-issued permits should be an issue. Whether the ranger gives me a lecture as they're issuing the permit, or whether I sign the document without the schpeal at a trailhead ... I'm still equally responsible for my own actions and adherence to the rules.

[AlmostThere]

For Yosemite, you need to be there in person so they can tell you the day before or the day you go that trail conditions have recently changed, that there is a fire burning near Harden Lake and closed that route so do you want to reroute (real example), there is a fire closing the road to Crane Flat/Tioga Road so you cannot go on your hike (real example, shut down the hiker bus and canceled a backpack last year for me and we ended up with a permit for the southeastern part of Yosemite instead), you cannot go without a bear can (repeated real example, I have heard people arguing and arguing that they do not need bear cans, for some reason they think Yose bears are not as bad as they are). People flock to Yosemite in droves and herds - they must get the permit in person and after hearing the stuff they try to get away with, I agree with that procedure.

In Sierra NF they have a night drop box - you call the day before, they put the permit in. But they aren't Yosemite with all the non-backpacking backpackers. Most of the time, the system in place evolved to meet a need.

In most places where you have to get a permit in person, it seems you can do so the day before you start hiking.

[balzaccom]

And if you want to visit the Hoover Wilderness out of Leavitt Meadows, you don't need to do anything except pick up a blank permit form at the trailhead, fill it out, and go on your hike.