Just returned from my first-ever solo ...

[Mike M.]

Maximun group size is 15 people; affiliated groups may not travel or camp within 1/2 mile of each other if the total group size exceeds that number. These regulations apply to all groups -- schools, Sierra Club outings, etc.

I don't think I would have held my tongue . . .

Mike

[mokelumnekid]

Mike- in my experience you hit the rub- 'affiliated groups.' That's the rule that I've seen broken. People max out their permit and then get another, but travel as a pack (per my comment on a previous post re: Lamarck Col where I saw a group of 25 Boy Scouts coming over).

Like Maverick- maybe I'm getting crotchety- but I will, firmly but respectfully, tell them that they are breaking the rules. The hard part is that when they only break the spirit of the thing. I'm torn on that point. If someone or a group is acting boorish, but within the rules, who am I to say anything? It is a free country in that sense, and my choices are to kindly and respectfully ask them to reduce the volume, but other than that- move out. In the end those rowdy teenagers have as much right to raise heck- as is their preference- as someone else is to expect quiet. Right up there is people who go into the back country with dogs that bark all night- even across a basin you can hear that.

Luckily in the wilderness setting one has the option of moving. What makes camping in designated campgrounds hellish is that they become exhibits of bad behavior. The summers I lived in the campground at Tuolumne Meadows lordy- was that place a freaking zoo! Etc., etc.

But it was all more-or-less legal.....

[rlown]

at least they didn't have guitars.. or worse... I would have complained and then moved, but it wouldn't help.. you can hear that for miles..

agree on the "affiliated groups" stuff, esp the Yose sponsored groups. The other group i met in 2008 was lead by a PETA guy.. 8th graders in mid sept at Evelyn Lk.. they were respectful, though. Good leader, other than not letting them fish a great lake. The "other form of hunting" thing...

[Mike M.]

True enough, but I would be mighty put out if a group of ten plopped down next to my camp site, within the group limit, rowdy or not. It's one of the reasons I like to stay off trail. Aside from a noisy Boy Scout troop or a too-big Sierra Club group, the worst thing for me is when I'm off the beaten path and some bozo shows up and wants to camp right nearby. Basic etiquette dictates giving each camper privacy and space.

But sometimes you just have to pick your things up and move camp to ensure your peace and quiet.

Mike

[rlown]

Groups do not understand basic etiquette.. Herd mentality takes over..

[balzaccom]

In your situation, I would contact the school and share my thoughts with them.

But then, I am reasonably tactful....and always willing to discuss something like this!

[ericZ]

contact the school. it's too late for your trip but may help others in the future.

eric
fresno, ca.

[windknot]

Thanks for the report, and congrats on your first solo trip!

About the large groups on the trail, I'd definitely contact the school. With these sorts of things, they probably simply don't realize that proper behavior in the backcountry is different from what might be acceptable in a school gymnasium or in a private home slumber party. Etiquette is first and foremost socially taught and regulated. If a school group designed to introduce a bunch of kids to backpacking is led by people who do not have this etiquette ingrained in themselves, then there's no way to expect the kids to know how to act. In this case, it's the school's responsibility to ensure that they know how to behave "out there." After all, a not insignificant part of the educational value of high school is simply teaching 15 to 18-year-old kids how to interact appropriately with other people and ultimately how to function properly within society.

[GH-Dave]

Rlown's statement about group mentality pretty much echoes my own feeling about it. Then, throw in that they are a bunch of city-raised teenage girls and there you have it.

I'd also like to reiterate that this episode definitely did not ruin my trip. It was merely a footnote in an otherwise hugely successful first venture out as solo. I've been backpacking for close to 40 years with the last 20 years' hiatus with only a couple of trips during that time. And I wanted to get started again.

My goal during this trip was to see what going solo was all about. I've always admired the solo guys and gals that we met up with on our trips. I've always wondered what it was like. Would I be scared out in the woods by myself at night? Would I be lonely? Would I be bored? Would I talk to myself too much, and would somebody hear me doing it? Would I get lost? Would I enjoy meeting folks? What if I got injured?

All these were answered very satisfactorily, and I found that I love going solo. I'm definitely going to do it again.

Dave

[mokelumnekid]

Hmmm...I'm probably going to get shelled for this, but them making racket and running around is completely what defines the quality of *their* experience. Who is to say that sitting quietly, gently holding one's Sierra cup, filled with hot herbal tea, thinking deep thoughts while gazing with a wistful and wise upward glance at yonder darkening sky, is the "approved" way to enjoy the wilderness? Man you should have seen some of the back-country "parties", no, bacchanals, I was part of back when I was climbing. Anybody visit Camp 4 or the SAR campsite in Tuolumne Meadows back in the day? What about singing? Musical instruments? Personally I find the sound of teenagers singing 'Cumbaya' more off-putting than dogs barking. Point is that it is a big world with many people having diverse ideas as to how to be in it. Thankfully, there aren't laws dictating appropriate behavior....

I'm of course only (kinda) joking around and pulling yer chain(s), but seriously- you call the school and describe a situation that to most people sounds like normal teenagers having fun. On what basis is one to argue-other than their own preconceived notions- as to what perfectly legal behavior is somehow more "correct" than another? I agree that behavior would have driven me batty as well and that IMHO it is inconsiderate. But having said that I would be the first to defend their right to make that racket.