Caching food in bear boxes on the JMT

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hikerchick395
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Re: Caching food in bear boxes on the JMT

Post by hikerchick395 »

On my last trip on the JMT, my neighbors packed in our food to Charlotte Lake. They camped near the bear box and had to tell the ranger, who wanted to confiscate the bucket, that we would be there soon to pick up our resupply ( plus they were staying until after we arrived.) Ha...not only did we have friends good enough to pack in our food, but to guard it, too.
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Re: Caching food in bear boxes on the JMT

Post by markskor »

George writes:
"So all the rangers in Sequoia Kings confiscate any food caches found in bear boxes and take it back to the ranger station."

Makes sense - understandable...probably mostly trash but maybe some good eats too.

" The same is true of bear canisters stashed off trail and meant as a cache -- I find and confiscate about half a dozen of those per season. You can pick up your cache (if the ranger's there) along with a citation."

I have some trouble with this.
Does this mean that we are officially not allowed to stash/cache any food, even in a legal bearcan...(with an attached posted/date to pick up note) somewhere backcountry SEKI?...assume hidden off trail and not in a bear box.
I know the "Did-not-return-and-pick-up" rate must be high, but are you saying that if you found a fully loaded bear can, under some rocks/cairn on July 28th, and a note said JMT pickup...~Aug 5th with a name...you would still take it and fine the individual too?
Seems harsh.
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Re: Caching food in bear boxes on the JMT

Post by dave54 »

So the moral of the story is to cache your can far enough off trail so a passing ranger or stray hiker will not spot it. Take a digital picture of the area and load the picture into your mp3 player so you can find the can again 3 weeks later. :D
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Re: Caching food in bear boxes on the JMT

Post by gdurkee »

I have some trouble with this.
Does this mean that we are officially not allowed to stash/cache any food, even in a legal bearcan...(with an attached posted/date to pick up note) somewhere backcountry SEKI?...assume hidden off trail and not in a bear box.
I know the "Did-not-return-and-pick-up" rate must be high, but are you saying that if you found a fully loaded bear can, under some rocks/cairn on July 28th, and a note said JMT pickup...~Aug 5th with a name...you would still take it and fine the individual too?
Seems harsh.
Well, from the hiker's perspective, it does seem harsh, I guess. But you acknowledge the abandoned cache rate "must be high" but that's one of the main reasons. That's not a teensy objection by NPS, it's hundreds of pounds of junk each ranger (X 14) hauls out per season. To me, there's no difference between a cache/bear canister/plastic bucket to maybe be picked up at some future date and garbage left forever.

Also, in all these years, I've never found a cache (in a bear box or off-trail) with a name and contact number/address. That in itself is a clue to me that the person realizes there's a chance they'll not come back. Everyone has great intentions, but it's a huge pain and an intrusion on trying to keep some semblance of undisturbed wilderness feel to the backcountry.

For whatever it's worth, the federal violation is "abandoned property" unless it's improperly stored food, then it would be a food violation.

For hikerchick395, the key phrase was:
( plus they were staying until after we arrived.)
If you stay with it, it's not abandoned AND if you're carrying out the hiker's bucket or whatever. (I was the ranger there, on the job as always...).

And, sure, you can try to hide it "way off trail" but most of us wander all over the place. It might work, but there's an equally high chance it won't.

Everyone's right about putting a canister in a bear box. Canisters work and putting it in a box is both overkill and takes up space needed by others.

All that said, theft is incredibly rare in the backcountry.

g.
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Re: Caching food in bear boxes on the JMT

Post by rlown »

I'm thinking there's a difference between trail-head bear box etiquette and backcountry bear box etiquette. We're told to remove anything from our vehicles that might be bear-worthy at the trailhead, and we might be gone for a week or more. Unfortunately, one has no idea how unsafe that is based on all the visitors. So, we're kinda screwed that we don't have trusted storage at the trailhead. I happen to like my truck windows, and based on conditions, some stuff has to be stored in the bear box.

Backcountry, obviously is different. When you're in a camp, the bear boxes are great, and pretty secure, if you stay close. Can't really imagine someone would stick a $250 bear canister in a bear box and expect it to be there 2 weeks later. :paranoid:

George, so you confiscate errant caches. What about the researchers in the parks? I find their caches all the time, and yes, with no tags, other than "do not disturb." Are they treated special?
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Re: Caching food in bear boxes on the JMT

Post by gdurkee »

What about the researchers in the parks? I find their caches all the time, and yes, with no tags, other than "do not disturb." Are they treated special?
Hmmm. That doesn't seem right, but who knows?? There's established research & trail crew camps scattered in a bunch of places. I think pretty much all of them use some form of Knaack box for food storage (60 Lakes, Upper LeConte, the Kern etc). Those, anyway, are allowed because they're temporary and "further wilderness values" because of the research or trail maintenance being done.

I guess it's possible a researcher on some sort of trip would cache food or gear. They sometimes carry huge loads so if they're doubling back, it probably happens. But they are required to have wilderness permits and get the permit-issuer pep talk... . So I guess the short answer is they're treated differently in that, with permission, they can have a long-term base camp. In all other matters, they do have to obey the rules.

g.
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Re: Caching food in bear boxes on the JMT

Post by ndwoods »

Why not just use the traditional food resupply places? They are incredibly easy to get to, the folks bend over backwards to help you...and that soda or whatever sure slides down nice!:)
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Re: Caching food in bear boxes on the JMT

Post by Snow Nymph »

About 10 years ago we hauled 2 cannisters up below Taboose Pass with 8 days of food each and buried under rocks, then marked a waypoint on GPS. 8 days later we picked up the food and left our trash in it. 8 days later we went up to get the cannisters with trash. 3 trips up Taboose Pass for one trip. We also had to hike down a ways to get the cache and hike back up. Never again up that trail! But it was a great trip!
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Re: Caching food in bear boxes on the JMT

Post by kkman »

For some trips where there are bear boxes it is very handy to drop off a couple days of food and then pick it up for use on the return part of the trip. Same thing with water caches on desert trips. If you take something that isn't yours that is stealing, it's as simple as that. Add to it that you may be endangering someone's life. These are moral rules that supersede any rules the NPS or FS dream up in some office. To cover any gray areas that may exist in your mind, it's reasonable to temporarily remove bear canisters from full bear boxes to make needed room. And it's reasonable for the NPS or FS to empty bear boxes at the end of the season when it is clear that they are abandoned.
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Re: Caching food in bear boxes on the JMT

Post by gdurkee »

kkman:
These are moral rules that supersede any rules the NPS or FS dream up in some office. To cover any gray areas that may exist in your mind, it's reasonable to temporarily remove bear canisters from full bear boxes to make needed room. And it's reasonable for the NPS or FS to empty bear boxes at the end of the season when it is clear that they are abandoned.
Not to be grouchy, but have you read this thread and the reasons NPS removes food caches from bear boxes?? This rule wasn't "dreamed up" in an office. I'm in the backcountry 24/7 for the next 4 months and, not incidentally, I'm the one carrying this abandoned junk out. What do you imagine "empty bear boxes" means at a practical level. Do you think we just drive a truck up to the box and take it away?

Go back and read the thread.

George
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