PCT thru-hikers and bear canisters

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gdurkee
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oh dear

Post by gdurkee »

Well, hard to decide where to start here. I'll go with Mark first:

A small side note, there are (according to their map anyway, though maybe you have more recent information) large areas in Yosemite you can still hang food. But that's semi-beside the point. I really don't know how many people sleep with their food. More than is good for any of us. I think the main thing here is that NPS & USFS can only do what they think is the most efficient and effective way of keeping food from bears. Then they (we...) provide the equipment (canisters, boxes, whatever); educate people on why it's a good idea; enforce it when people aren't open to education; and hope it all works.

It's my experience that most people go with the program. As a group, backpackers are pretty bright, want to do the right thing and, eventually, trainable. I have definitely not found it to be the case that the canister requirement encourages people sleeping with their food. Bears are darned bright and adaptable critters. Were it a significant number of people sleeping with food, the bears would find it long before the rangers and we'd be seeing many more injuries. As always, I could be wrong but....

As far as soap and stuff like that, I don't get too excited about it. I'd just leave it out on a log -- though I suppose a zealous ranger could cite you for it. Bears aren't that dumb to bite into soap more than once in their careers.

I think you're right that eventually canisters will be required in the areas you suggest. Maybe within 5 years, but I have no special knowledge or influence here.
Are YOSE and SEKI time bombs for bear predation? California bears already recognize cars and coolers as food sources. An increasing number of reports suggest that backcountry bears know darn well what's in food canisters. Is it simply a matter of time before a shift in the fragile ecological balance of California's wilderness results in a dramatic food shortage that sends bears searching for humans...as food? If bear predation can occur in GSMNP, it can certainly occur in California.
Now, on to that weird bear article. Don't know this guy's experience with bears. Grizzly and California black bears are two different critters. I can really only comment knowledgeably about California black bears. I think this is one of those 'straw man' arguments. Set up something based on false assumptions and justify it.

Something to remember is that, in 30+ years, I know of no fatalities from California (!!) black bears. Maybe a total of 50 (??) injuries in that time.

Whatever the canisters smell like, these bears learn ONLY whether they can break into them or not. It's a rare bear that bothers with a Garcia. On the whole, they're also leaving the Bearikades alone. They are, occasionally, still thumping on the Bear Vaults and, rarely, get in. This is all to say it has nothing to do with bears associating the canisters with food -- they do -- but with whether experience tells them they can get in.

Bears are already habituated to humans and have been for well over 100 years. I've just seen no evidence that they're becoming more aggressive or more likely to go after humans as prey. There have been cases in other states -- New Mexico -- this has happened. Not real sure what's different. Probably that there's a fairly good food supply available in the Sierra. Some bears do become a bit more testy in late August when they really need food and before berries etc. are out. But still, that seems only to be the case with a very few young ones.

My experience is that aversive conditioning has very limited success. Bears become afraid of rangers, for instance. As above though, NPS & USFS have to have practical solutions. I don't see us talking campers into all night guards with pepper spray wafting into the night.

There's more in that article that's marginal that's not worth dealing with. Maybe it's more right for grizzly, though I'm suspicious of that too.

OK. Hope this helps.

g.[/quote]
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markskor
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Post by markskor »

George,
This has been quite the civil debate, both entertaining and informative –
Interesting to be able to obtain (quite reasonable) observations from one truly on the inside – thanks Ranger Durkee.
The fact remains…I am hiking Tuolumne to Mammoth with my 13-year-old son this summer (7 days…Banner, 10000 Island,... fishing.) I carry one Bearikade – we will be spending the first night at that camp near the little bridge, half way up the hill to Donahue Pass –, under the trees.
All the important food will have been packed and secured – tightly - in the can, but…maybe a few items will be hung, back behind, in the trees.
I hope we can continue this “enlightened” discussion then, on the trail….
Mark
Mountainman who swims with trout
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gdurkee
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Post by gdurkee »

Mark:

The farther you can get up towards Donahue, the better. Bears go to that camp. So you might take that food way, way away and hang it off a tree or a big boulder. The best is if you can carry a 2nd canister to the Postpile, then send it back.

Have a great hike.

g.
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