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NeoAir Thermarest...new product

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Re: NeoAir Thermarest...new product

Postby ERIC » Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:02 pm

hikerduane wrote:Funny, the two younger guys just about brought up the rear and us two older guys got back to camp first.:)


You? Whoopin' younger fellas like myself?? Pfft..I don't believe it.. :wink:

Glad you guys had a good time. Sorry to hear Paige's NeoAir sprung a leak. Hope it's a patchable hole.
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Re: NeoAir Thermarest...new product

Postby hikerduane » Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:26 pm

You need to visit more often, so close for you on the Yosemite trips, but then they all tend to take lots of pics.
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Re: NeoAir Thermarest...new product

Postby rlown » Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:09 pm

how do you guys who have one store this? mines folded in 3's. not like a thermarest you can shove under the bed.
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Re: NeoAir Thermarest...storing

Postby snusmumriken » Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:05 pm

I just fold mine up and leave it in my pack. That way I know where to find it!
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Re: NeoAir Thermarest...new product

Postby ERIC » Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:18 pm

hikerduane wrote:You need to visit more often, so close for you on the Yosemite trips, but then they all tend to take lots of pics.


Yep. You're right. New Year's Eve is always going to be a tough one for me though. Maybe we should organize a similar trip with HST peeps this month or next. I'd even entertain the idea of some East Side locales for something like that.
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Re: NeoAir Thermarest...new product

Postby hikerduane » Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:55 pm

I fold mine in thirds, stuff in a Granite Gear sack to protect it. Rolled up first then folded to avoid the sharp folds, weakening the material possible.

I have had my share of trips to Yosemite, long trip over 88. If Tioga Pass was open it would be ok. New Year's Eve it took seven hours to get to Wawona CG, tried 49 from Jackson south. 49 disappeared on me, somewhere in Mariposa, I was going to go into Oakhurst then to Wawona. Ended up taking heading east out of Mariposa. That is not the fast way. It took less than six hours from Badger Pass, coming back going 120 to Sonora, then 49 to Jackson to 88 east. Long drive to the east side for the gang here. Even with SlowNymph a few years ago, only five of us went up to Mosquito Flat. Sure miss seeing her.

We're meeting in 10 days in Lassen to car camp.
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Re: NeoAir Thermarest...new product

Postby rlown » Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:04 pm

ok.. decided that the best way to store this puppy was to just roll it up.. no folds. in a safe place.
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Re: NeoAir Thermarest...new product

Postby oldranger » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:15 am

oh oh!

I see that they have come out with a 25x77" version. Even if I get an 1/8" closed cell pad to protect the bottom that is a significant weight reduction over my Exped 7 Delux Downmat that is the same size. The only issue is that as I sleep cooler and cooler in my old age would I lose too much in insulation compared to the Downmat? As a light weight and comfort junky I am conflicted.

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Re: NeoAir Thermarest...new product

Postby hikerduane » Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:17 pm

One hip felt a slight difference in temp than the other side. I was using a 1/2" closed cell pad and I had some melting under me. I would bring an extra pad to use as back up if your test did not work out using such a thin pad under the NeoAir. My setup did not save much weight, as the blue pad weights 13 oz. and the NeoAir was 9 oz. My Exped Dam9 comes in at 27 oz. I think.
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Re: NeoAir Thermarest...new product

Postby SierraHigh » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:20 pm

hikerduane wrote:High.:) We need some engineer to do the calcs on this, to see how much pressure I was creating by blowing the pad up as much as possible, then standing on it with the 2X6 board with my 160 lbs. The board in question is 21.5 inches long, just as wide as the pad. I need to see now if I can repair it, wasn't thinking along those lines last night or this morning. I don't even think a repair kit is available for it yet. I will email Customer Service at Cascade Designs, as Sales has no clue what a NeoAir is. I thought that was hilarious when I emailed Sales and they went huh?

I just couldn't stop myself from applying some forensic structural engineering to this product failure. Based on physics, you didn't add any significant "extra" pressure to the mattress by distributing your weight on a 2x6. Because the chambers are all connected, the pressure inside the mattress would be the same if you laid on your back or your side on the mattress or used a board to distribute your weight. There could be a slight delay in balancing the pressure if the air movement is constricted between the chambers, but eventually it will be about the same no matter how you apply your weight. Try squeezing a balloon in your hands and you'll see it doesn't matter how you squeeze it as long as the force (your weight) is the same.

There are a couple of unusual conditions that could occur. If you "bottomed out", then some of the load would be carried by the ground and the net pressure increase would actually be less. If you applied the load very rapidly, then the pressure might not balance between the chambers quick enough in which case you would see a temporary spike in pressure. You didn't mention jumping on the board so lets rule that out. The take-away point is that the mattress did not fail because it had too much pressure. It did not explode.

However, there is an important difference between laying directly on the mattress and putting your weight on a 2x6. The edges of the 2x6 will cause local shear stress concentrations to the mattress fabric that you wouldn't get by distributing the load more evenly (i.e. laying on it). Having the mattress fully inflated would increase these local stress concentrations, as would any movement of the 2x6 or the mattress. You mentioned lifting the mattress to see the under side while standing on the board. The fabric shear stress concentrations are probably what caused the 3/8" v-shaped tearing damage you describe. I suspect that the tear occurred near a corner of the 2x6 as you were lifting the mattress.

These mattresses probably have a good safety margin built in against explosion, with the seams being the weak link. Its the fabric tearing or puncture that you need to protect against. Having written that, a fully inflated and heavily weighted mattress will be more prone to tearing or puncture.

I'm glad they replaced your NeoAir. I think I'll stay with my Prolite3 or 4 until I hear some long term success with this one. Saving the ounces is tempting though...
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