October Snowstorm, Sequoia National Park

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peninsula
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Re: October Snowstorm, Sequoia National Park

Post by peninsula »

I like the MSR tents, I use the Hubba when going solo. I was concerned it might not be warm enough, but it did fine and it is light weight. However, the tent fly will never be the same, it got permanently stretched out by the wet snow!

I got an email from Ted and Jenn. I'm not sure they will ever come back, as Jenn tells me she has a bad taste in her mouth for the experience, although that could change with time. They were camped at Junction Meadow when the storm hit and they got mostly rain just as you. I guess things got pretty wet.
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Re: October Snowstorm, Sequoia National Park

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anyway, whilst the storm was going on, i SPOTted out "OK" messages to my wife and friends.
there was a period where she did not receive a signal for about 33 hours - and based upon what a few other friends were telling her, she bagan to panic. she called the park rangers and they said to call back when she received the next SPOT signal from me. they had me in the que for a rescue after the 3 hikers.

i have mixed feelings about SPOT now. i bought it this year as an experiment and fun way to track me.... but i discovered that it is not reliable when there are trees (even with a 30% view of the sky) and especially during a storm. only 2/3 of my total messages went through (i did on the average 3 a day).... it was always able to get a GPS lock - the problem is on the transmit (uplink) side.

and so if it is a REAL emergency and you are hurt in a deep forest and can not get to clear open sky, of what use is SPOT when it doesn't have enough signal power to communicate with the globalstar network of satellites?
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peninsula
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Re: October Snowstorm, Sequoia National Park

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lostcoyote wrote:anyway, whilst the storm was going on, i SPOTted out "OK" messages to my wife and friends.
there was a period where she did not receive a signal for about 33 hours - and based upon what a few other friends were telling her, she bagan to panic. she called the park rangers and they said to call back when she received the next SPOT signal from me. they had me in the que for a rescue after the 3 hikers.

i have mixed feelings about SPOT now. i bought it this year as an experiment and fun way to track me.... but i discovered that it is not reliable when there are trees (even with a 30% view of the sky) and especially during a storm. only 2/3 of my total messages went through (i did on the average 3 a day).... it was always able to get a GPS lock - the problem is on the transmit (uplink) side.

and so if it is a REAL emergency and you are hurt in a deep forest and can not get to clear open sky, of what use is SPOT when it doesn't have enough signal power to communicate with the globalstar network of satellites?
Only 2 of some 13 of Ted and Jenn's okay messages got out! Mine all made it out, but one before the day of the storm was delayed and caused panic. SPOT is apparently not everything they represent it to be and the NPS is growing impatient with them and their technology. My wife says the NPS and S&R organizations want to have a pow-wow with SPOT along these lines, or so she was told when she was checking up on me when my ok message did not come through.
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Re: October Snowstorm, Sequoia National Park

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sorry about diverging from the topic....

but along those lines, one of the guys that was on my SPOT list of contacts did a little research for me when i told him only 60% of my messages transmitted OK and came up with this story:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33470581/ns/us_news-life/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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peninsula
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Re: October Snowstorm, Sequoia National Park

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lostcoyote wrote:sorry about diverging from the topic....

but along those lines, one of the guys that was on my SPOT list of contacts did a little research for me when i told him only 60% of my messages transmitted OK and came up with this story:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33470581/ns/us_news-life/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It is a very good topic. I think anyone who summons a S&R, regardless of legitimacy, needs to pay all expenses! Those stories of abuse are disgusting. I am always amazed how people can behave so brainlessly.
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Re: October Snowstorm, Sequoia National Park

Post by gdurkee »

Campers:

Glad everyone's OK that was out there. Also hope you moved up on the learning curve some. As one of the people who was trying to figure out how big a search we were going to have and where people were, it's very cool that everyone (except the 3 original folks in trouble) got out on their own. (I have to add that I was augured into a cushy chair, coffee at the ready; our buddy Skibum was actually tromping around in it...).

I'd reemphasize my note elsewhere here on preparing for a trip after mid-September or so. You've mentioned a couple of the things here: better tent (I'd definitely go for a 4 season tent); better clothing etc. But no one's mentioned the weather report. (It was a northern front with a fetch of tropical moisture feeding into it). I think this storm was on the forecast a full 7 days out. I would be really hesitant about going into the Kern anytime after October 1 or so -- just too easy to get stuck there. The later into October, the greater the odds that whatever storm does hit, the snow won't melt on the passes.

This seems to be happening more often -- people hiking later in the season and getting hit by serious weather. Of those, various agencies end up pulling a few of them out (or, as in 2004 -- all of them) at huge expense and not a little risk. So I'm just saying to really think about your route and make sure you're well prepared.

thanks,

george
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peninsula
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Re: October Snowstorm, Sequoia National Park

Post by peninsula »

Thanks George,

I figure I'll go back to the Kern-Kaweah drainage next year, but I believe I'm going to stick with late September. This October trip was a product of doing a photography workshop the first week of October and family obligations in September, otherwise, I'd not gone as late.

That said, the fall color is really nice in October in the Kern River area! I imagine it can be just as nice in September depending on the climate any given year.

Thank you for keeping an eye on us!

Greg
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Re: October Snowstorm, Sequoia National Park

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gdurkee wrote:But no one's mentioned the weather report. (It was a northern front with a fetch of tropical moisture feeding into it). I think this storm was on the forecast a full 7 days out.

thanks for the inputs george,

yeah, that's sorta what i figured (in previous post, i noted the southern turning western flow of clouds)
unfortunately, i was going to be going in for a while longer and had only a sketchy 10 day forcast going in. wish i did have the 7 day and it was the couple i crossed paths with (tedd & jenn) who gave me more detail as i was headed out (lots of rain tuesday, clearing wednsday is what they told me and i presumed that came from lodgepole where they got their permit)

i was well prepared in terms of food supplies and warm clothing (ski mask, gloves, long johns, layers of shirt/swaetshirt/jacket, etc) but it was my rated 3/4 season tent that failed me in the downpour resulting in a wet sleeping bag - uggggg - go figure.


did you read the MSN report i left a few posts back about the problems rising up with the "SPOT" devices? i agree with greg that ayone pushing a 911 ought to be responsible with whatever costs go along with the rescue... and those helicopters are expensive to fly & maintain. and how can any cost be attached to the intrinsic risk you guys take when going out on a rescue.

my wife jumped the gun and called me into you guys simply because she had psychologically gotten used to me sending 2-3 check-in's a day and then my check-in's went AWOL for 33 hours during & after the storm because SPOT failed to send a morning check in on the day i was hiking through snow and i had a good view of the sky. i guess it's a good thing that i did finally get one out because she told me i was on the que for a pick-up if i didn't check in soon - and that would have been totally unessessary and a waste of time for the S&R guys.

======

greg,
please check your PM. i want to make contact with tedd & jenn if possible and so i left my email with you.
Last edited by lostcoyote on Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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gdurkee
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Re: October Snowstorm, Sequoia National Park

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my wife jumped the gun and called me into you guys simply because she had psychologically gotten used to me sending 2-3 check-in's a day and then my check-in's went AWOL for 33 hours during the storm.
Actually, I remember sitting in my comfy chair and one of the guys came in to say we just got another phone call from a worried spouse. My first thought was: "Hey, more overtime!" No, just kidding. We selfless public servants are concerned only with the public's well being and not filthy lucre... .

I did read that MSN article. I had started calling the 911 button the mommy button. Still, they're definitely a useful device just as long as people use them when they really need them and also realize that the signal isn't always going to get out, so they can't depend on them.

I suspect that after this flurry of bogus calls, the publicity and, I hope, some sort of stronger warning from the SPOT and PLB people will get folks to use them more responsibly.

I also don't want to sound like I'm coming down on anyone -- just making sure that all factors are taken into account before heading out for adventure... .

g.
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Re: October Snowstorm, Sequoia National Park

Post by lostcoyote »

gdurkee wrote:
Actually, I remember sitting in my comfy chair and one of the guys came in to say we just got another phone call from a worried spouse. My first thought was: "Hey, more overtime!"
:lol: that's a funny visual :lol:


gdurkee wrote: I also don't want to sound like I'm coming down on anyone -- just making sure that all factors are taken into account before heading out for adventure... .
i took extra maps with me, especially the golden trout wilderness just in case i did need to head down the kern through lower elevations and come out kennedy mdws. my out plan for the upper kern, had i gotten dumped on there would have been to bail out over shepherd pass and avoid the steep trail over south forester.


i should mention - one of the really kewl things was when i was headed up to kaweah gap, i got to see a couple of deer tracks enroute through the snow as well as mountain lion tracks. the cat prints were 3-4 inches across - a big one. once atop the gap, the deer tracks kept rising along the northern ridgeline before dropping into hamilton bowl. they avoided going down to precipice for some reason.

at the tunnel above hamilton lakes, i reported a rock fall to the ranger at the park boundary entrance station as i drove out of the park. it may have taken out the trail just east of the tunnel and i had to sit and move across a few 5 ton boulders to get across. if those boulders go, they'd take a backpacker along with them as thre is a 150 foot near vertical gorge there. so i was really moving slow as i crossed over them as i did not want to dislodge them.

that trail's a mess above hamilton, as there are numerous washouts. hope you guys put in for some good funding for trail maintenance next year. i imagine lots of trail repair work to be done between the 5000-9000 foot level.
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