PCT thru-hikers and bear canisters

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ndwoods
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Post by ndwoods »

I'm a milder version of bearlover. I call bear canisters "bear savers."
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PhilB
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Post by PhilB »

The argument I have heard on several ocassions from non-can-carrying thru hikers is that they can camp at sites with bear boxes in SEKI, then in Yosemite they only stay at TM or Glen Aulin. After that they are more than 7 miles from the road in northern yosemite.

I find it hard to believe they stick to such a rigid schedule but the hikers using this argument have certainly convinced themselves they are in the right. Unless carrying a can was mandatory in all wilderness areas I suspect there will always be a minority who insist on finding some excuse to not carry a can.

It is dissappointing to hear Ranger George complaining about damage caused by people who should know better. I hate seeing the problems he mentions but thought they were mostly limited to near popular trailheads where novices decided to stop. Obviously it only takes a small number to cause highly visible damage.

And Bearlover, only 9 days food in a Garcia? Try a 17 day JMT trip, although I did top up the can with power bars at VVR. Probably not the most appetising selection of food and I will not eat couscous again but I got it all in the can.
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BSquared
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Post by BSquared »

PhilB wrote: And Bearlover, only 9 days food in a Garcia? Try a 17 day JMT trip, although I did top up the can with power bars at VVR. Probably not the most appetising selection of food and I will not eat couscous again but I got it all in the can.
Whoa, philB, I wanna see your food list! (Or maybe I don't ;) ). I had a helluva time getting 1.5 weeks in an expedition-size Bearikade! (But I've been told I'm not good at repacking...)
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PhilB
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Post by PhilB »

BSquared wrote: Whoa, philB, I wanna see your food list! (Or maybe I don't ;)
The main meals were couscous, soup mix and powdered instant potato. After that it was pretty much all power bars/clif bars. Not the greatest food but it did the job and fitted in the can.

That was a few years ago now but I can't remember being hungry on the trip. Don't know if that means I had enough food or just couldn't face the food I was carrying!
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Bearlover
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Bearlover

Post by Bearlover »

Ya.. I know.. I'm kinda nice.
There is a Bear.. Where? Over there!
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Wanderer
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Post by Wanderer »

markskor wrote:Bear,
Have to agree with all except the very last: No BS excuses part. Once again, on the first day out, not all things fit. No matter how I try, not every piece that is supposed to be in there - in my Bearikade, can be in there. For a day or two, in trail segments that are long, (for example -VVR to the Portal), I still either hang some food, sleep with it, or make a cairn. I wish this was not the case but...I am not gonna carry 2 bear cans.

So, my adamant and wise friend...if hanging is illegal ($5000 fine), what am I supposed to do?
Sorry, I'm really with BearLover on this one. To give you a specific answer, what you're supposed to do is pack / plan more effectively, period. Laws are laws, if everyone decided on their own which ones they were, or were not, going to adhere to we'd have even more chaos than we do now.

That's the answer, like it or not. If we're supposed to make you feel better about breaking the law by giving you feel-good answers, then maybe you should consider that those first days that you mention are probably the days when you're in the areas most frequented by habituated bears and therefore, arguably, the most inmportant aeas for you to properly store your food!
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markskor
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Post by markskor »

Wanderer wrote: That's the answer, like it or not. If we're supposed to make you feel better about breaking the law by giving you feel-good answers, then maybe you should consider that those first days that you mention are probably the days when you're in the areas most frequented by habituated bears and therefore, arguably, the most inmportant aeas for you to properly store your food!
First off, I do not really care about your validation or whether I get a "feel good" answer.
Second, I feel that I am as conscious as the next about being ultra safe and protecting the life of the bear - in all instances. Everything than can go into the biggest can I can find (repacked of course) does go into the can - crammed in tight.
Who elected you god anyway? Nobody came down rudely on you or your opinions...until now. The fact remains that today there are giant loopholes in the laws...whether or not you are on one ridge (inside YNP) or outside - 1/8 mile away, can make all the difference in a $5000 fine or not - and whether you can hang or not. Even the origional poster admits that his uncle puts a flask in a crook of the tree - never bothered but still illegal. Do you always put everything inside of your canister? Always? Is there a loose chapstick or other small item that you keep out, in your pocket or tent? - thus are you deserving of a fine? How about while preparing food...Is there food out...for how long? Can you justify that...period? How about uneaten leftover meals...where does that food go? What about those items that do not fit when you are outside a bear can required area? Is it right then to keep stuff down? or do you hang food in those areas? Does that make that legal? If you spill food on your jacket, does the jacket then have to go in the can? How about spilling on a tent...or on a thermarest? Where do you draw the line on this? How about your stove? Is there food on the outside thus making it necessary to put it in the can too? I hear stories about critters eating clothes (salt) or treking pole handles...boot laces too...and what about trash?
At some point, common sense must enter into the equation somewhere. I am not advocating blatent disregard of the law here, I firmly advocate that all overnighters must carry a can - always - in all parts of the the Sierra. It should not matter where in the Sierra...How about you? Do you always carry one? I do.... period, but at some point, a honest attempt must also be recognized...period.
What about if those first few days if you are not in a high habituated bear area...does that then make storage less important?
That is my answer...like it or not.
Mark Papanek
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BSquared
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Post by BSquared »

While I think Markskor and Wanderer could both be a little more diplomatic (Please, Gentlemen! :unibrow: ), I find myself agreeing with both of them: we need to keep the food from the bears, absolutely, but there's a matter of practicality.

So: howcome there aren't a lot more bear boxes in Yosemite, especially where people are likely to spend the first night or two of a long trip? I think I saw another thread where George Durkee suggested that rangers had placed bear boxes in SEKI at just such places (e.g., Charlotte Lake ... although there are just generally a LOT of bear boxes in SEKI and -- as far as I know -- not very many at all in Yosemite). But places where I'd expect them in Yosemite, they're not (e.g., Lyell base camp, Forsythe junction). Any idea why not?
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caddis
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Post by caddis »

BSquared wrote:I find myself agreeing with both of them
I don't. To be brief , since mark seems to have laid out most of it, this is an example of a regulation (not a law) that punishes those that try hardest. It is the city-slicker-car-camping idiots or the foolish 3 miles-or-less, trash-hauling weekend backslackers that create most of the problems with bears yet the hardcore backpacker pays the price.

markskor wrote:At some point, common sense must enter into the equation somewhere.
This is the ultimate solution. Punish hard, those people that feed bears, whether purposely or through inept practices. Give some leeway to those that are doing their best to comply to the essence of the regulation..if they can't fit everything into a canister but properly hang their food at night then leave them be.


Side question here...do they still 'relocate' problem bears?
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AldeFarte
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Post by AldeFarte »

I agree w/Mark and Caddis. I don't have a stupid canister yet, but I can see the writin' on the wall for me. Around my neigborhood a problem bear usually has a tag and a buddy or two. Just like punk kids, they hang out and create havoc. Taste good, tho. Why, just tonight I had a most excellant crocked up venison/bear stew. jls
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