Frameless packs

Share your advice and personal experiences, post a gear review or ask any questions you may have pertaining to outdoor gear and equipment.
User avatar
trav867
Topix Regular
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:12 pm
Experience: N/A

Frameless packs

Post by trav867 »

So in an effort to reduce the weight I have to carry, I'm thinking about trying/buying a frameless pack. The Gossamer Gear G4 looks to be about what I need, or think I need...I think. Just wondering if anyone could weigh in on frameless packs, what their experiences have been with them, and/or recommendations. Thanks!
User avatar
copeg
Founding Member & Forums Administrator
Founding Member & Forums Administrator
Posts: 2109
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:25 pm
Experience: Level 4 Explorer
Location: Menlo Park, CA
Contact:

Re: Frameless packs

Post by copeg »

I've used two frameless pack....a golite breeze and a G4. They both differ considerably in their design and I much prefer the G4 based upon its initial size as well as its comfort. The breeze stunk when it came to comfort and the G4 much better. The pocket in the G4 allows you to add a z-rest for a back pad which is very nice and quite comfortable, and the extensive outer mesh pockets give you quite a bit of extra room. Of course frameless pack aren't meant for large loads, and I'd go by the G4 description of loads less than 30lbs to stay in a comfort zone. My one complaint about the G4 design is that its seems to ride a bit low (aka my butt can sometimes hit the bottom...and I don't have a very large butt! :lol: ). A nice thing about frameless packs is their simple design - if you have access to a sewing machine and know a bit how to sew, you can sometimes save a good deal of $$$ by making your own.
User avatar
markskor
Founding Member - RIP
Posts: 2442
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:41 pm
Experience: Level 4 Explorer
Location: Crowley Lake and Tuolumne Meadows

Re: Frameless packs

Post by markskor »

Back in '84, bought the original frameless pack - Yak-Pak Troi Jour (no longer made)...about 3400 CI with the side pockets. I used this extensively for 5 years. (weight - 1 1/2 pounds)...still use it too on short overnighters.
Some observations, as it pertains to today's offerings:
- 30 - 35 (maybe 40 tops) pounds is all that it holds without permanent bodily damage. Still I managed more than a few 10-day adventures with that old friend.
- The whole trick is to stuff it tight, like a sausage, in order to make the suspension work.
- I remember it taking a good half hour to pack it up...twice as long as my Gregory.
- God help you if you needed anything out of the bottom.
- Hotter than hell when doing summer miles...sweat would pool and find its way into sleeping bag.
- A bear can does not fit well...(maybe the Bearikade Scout, but still my back cries out.)
- Best pack I ever owned, until carrying bear cans became mandatory.
Mark
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Mountainman who swims with trout
User avatar
rlown
Topix Docent
Posts: 8225
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:00 pm
Experience: Level 4 Explorer
Location: Wilton, CA

Re: Frameless packs

Post by rlown »

I have 3 packs:

1) An old CampTrails Frame pack i got when i started at 16. It did well for 30 years, but then the zippers started giving out. Bear Cannister fits nicely in the bottom area right above the sleeping bag and thermarest. She's been since retired due to #2.

2)A new Kelty Tioga 5500 Frame pack to replace the above. The extra room allows me to tuck in extra fleece gear if i think it's gonna be cold. I like frame packs because I tend to go when it's gonna be either really hot on the trail, or i need to carry a lot of stuff. I think external frames breath better for the sweating one does up hill, and i love to sweat.

3) Lowe's Alpine system frameless (circa 1988). A perfect size and lots o' straps for my winter backcountry. It fits snugly against my back to keep me warm and has those silly inserts in them to give at least some strength so my shoulders dont carry all the load.

Just to add, when i used to do some climbing, the frameless was better as it gave me a better center of gravity.


Russ
User avatar
hikerduane
Founding Member
Posts: 1268
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:58 am
Experience: Level 4 Explorer
Location: Meadow Valley, CA

Re: Frameless packs

Post by hikerduane »

Try this a third time.

I spent a couple weeks in Nov and Dec, mulling over which new pack to buy. I really wanted another Golite Gust, as it was a tried and proven pack for me. It's newer version is the Pinnacle, which this coming season is going up in weight again to around two lbs. Anyway, I was thinking of the GG packs and the SMD, Starlite. I settled on the SMD pack, five oz. heavier than my Gust. it seemed to have mostly good reviews and the material was proven to me in my Gust. The GG packs use silnylon which in the end I thought would not stand up to xc trips and I had read, without the stays may not carry well with loads approaching 35 lbs. which I could potentially do. Some quality issues from the past I have heard about also, but had been fixed by great customer service, but the final decision is yours. I read and reread reviews, tough decision for a Libra. The only thing I don't like about going to a little smaller pack, is there is no room for extras and some of my gear like my TarpTent will be stuffed into a outside mesh pocket, whereas my Gust, everything went inside, unless on a winter trip and I had to put my snowshoes on the outside. I have noticed that the ultralight packs are going back up in weight, must be a comfort issue going on. I thought some too of the Z Packs, but they can be vulnerable to sharp objects I had read, but hold up for a PCT thru hike. Look at ULA also, I backed down from them because of the size I needed, the pack would be around 3 lbs.

I had a CampTrails pack too which I used for years, not knowing it was only big enough for weekend trips.
Piece of cake.
User avatar
rlown
Topix Docent
Posts: 8225
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:00 pm
Experience: Level 4 Explorer
Location: Wilton, CA

Re: Frameless packs

Post by rlown »

hikerduane wrote:I had a CampTrails pack too which I used for years, not knowing it was only big enough for weekend trips.
Interesting, mine was packed to the gills and worked for 7 day trips..
User avatar
hikerduane
Founding Member
Posts: 1268
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:58 am
Experience: Level 4 Explorer
Location: Meadow Valley, CA

Re: Frameless packs

Post by hikerduane »

Being the newbie for years, starting in the early 70's bping, as I had no one to show me the ropes, when my CampTrails was loaded for an 8-9 day trip, I looked like everything I owned was on my back. I don't carry an extra pair of Levi's, clean shirt or underwear for everyday anymore, nor do I have that five pound synthetic fill bag.
Piece of cake.
User avatar
paul
Topix Expert
Posts: 787
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:35 pm
Experience: N/A

Re: Frameless packs

Post by paul »

I have made numerous packs over the years (sewed my first pack in 1972), Have made frameless, internal frame, framesheet, and variations.Even sewed packbags for my external frame. Based on my experience, I wouldn't get a frameless pack unless my load was expected to be so light (under 15lbs total including pack) that the pack hardly matters. Personally, I like to keep most of the load on my hips, and I have found that to do that with a frameless pack requires packing it really tight, even with a foam pad acting as a "frame". Plus, Shoulder straps are more comfortable when you can have lifter straps that angle up from the top of the shoulder, and you just can't get that to work well without some sort of frame - I've tried it. The pack I use now in the summer is one that I made, with aluminum stays, padded hipbelt, 16 oz. It handles loads up to about 30 lbs very nicely, is nearly as light as the lightest frameless packs, I don't have to pack it perfectly, and it handles a bear canister just fine.
If you are comfortable carrying more weight on your shoulders, then a frameless pack may be OK for you, if you have reduced the weight of everything else - and I mean everything else - that you carry.
User avatar
trav867
Topix Regular
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:12 pm
Experience: N/A

Re: Frameless packs

Post by trav867 »

Thanks for all the input- a 16oz pack with aluminum stays sounds like the best of both worlds! I think the G4 will go on my ever-increasing list of gear-to-someday-buy...

What about using tent poles to give a z-rest/frame sheet some rigidity?
User avatar
frediver
Topix Regular
Posts: 268
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:15 pm
Experience: N/A
Location: n.cal

Re: Frameless packs

Post by frediver »

I have the G-4 and pack it with my tent poles "in between" the folds of my z-rest.
This worked great for my 40 pound load.
I wish it was large enough to pack a bear can horizontally, it's not and I make do.
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot] and 44 guests