Senate passes HR3022 66-12

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hikerduane
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Re: Senate passes HR3022 66-12

Post by hikerduane »

I have to disagree and agree with Bad Man on a few things. First, horses should be allowed into wilderness, but something needs to be done on heavily impacted areas. They helped build trails, maybe as part of their permit, the packers would have to repair/mitigate? impacted areas to be able to operate, even if private parties use the trails also. Kinda like when loggers bid on a sale, they have to build or improve roads, which comes out of their profits.

Second, I have seen where the wild horse issue gets little interest from bpers, as most of the impact is away from areas we frequent. The west and Nevada in particular is overrun with wild horses, some, not what I would call wild if you can get within 50' of them. They are grazing over areas where antelope and other critters need to forage, but wild horse advocates want them left alone. What do we do with all of them? Wild horse adoptions are way down I understand and wild horse advocates won't allow them to be sold for consumption or sold overseas, as they know what will happen to them there.

Third, I have seen developers come into wild, beautiful areas, try to develop an area only to have it not fly for whatever reason then go bankrupt. For example, Gold Mountain up by Portola, Dan Garnder couldn't make it. Dyer Mountain up by Westwood, belly up before it got off the ground. I think these areas are just too far from population centers to make a go of it. Disney had been looking at the Chester/Lake Almanor area, but nothing has come of that. A couple projects that have made it, White Hawk by Graeagle, north of Truckee, and Graeagle itself developed by Harvey West which is currently expanding. He had ties to Lake Tahoe years ago.
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Bad Man From Bodie
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Re: Senate passes HR3022 66-12

Post by Bad Man From Bodie »

hikerduane,

Not sure where you and I disagree???? Sounds like we have made the same observations.

Cuervo,

You got me there......no I havent seen the damage done on the Kern Plateau and seen the non-native cattle damage done to the banks of Mulkey Creek, for example, in the Golden Trout Wilderness where native trout try to survive. Nope havent seen that, but I can attest to you that I have set eyes on a cow or two in my day and have whitness my fair share of livestock damage ect......So what do you want to see??? Less cows/AUM or no cows or what? Do you eat beef or sport leather shoes??? Do you want to see no cows in wilderness areas is that it?

In respect to livestock on high country trails......yes some damage is occured by horses which make trails wide ect.(and yes it makes me sick too). But, just remember its those nice easy going horse trails that make it possible for most folks to enjoy the high country. Horse wont travel all places human can, but human can go all places horses do. The decrease in the amount of stock permitted in the high country has a direct relation to trail condition today. EVERY SINLGE outfitter, horse/mule owner I have ever been around for the sake of the stock, dismounts and removes large rocks, logs and generaly improves the condition of the trail traveld. No way do you want your horse to go lame over a poor maintained trail. Bottom line is the trails are mainly there because of horses......

So since this thread is about good old HR3022 66-12.....let me ask this........What does wilderness mean to you??? How and for what should wilderness be managed and who should be charged with managing it? Should wilderness be managed at all?
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JMat
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Re: Senate passes HR3022 66-12

Post by JMat »

I spent alot of hours in my younger years working on trail crews(by hours I mean months) and can tell you unequivocally that horses and mules do more damage than just about anything short of a vehicle. Anytime you put that much weight on such little surface area you're asking for damage.
That being said... most of our trails have been made and maintained by horses and mules but that certainly doesn't mean they should have unlimited access to our forests and there certainly is a happy medium. Just because horses have historically helped build trails doesn't mean they should always be there.
One thing I've seen as of late is trail crews with llamas. While they don't carry as much weight they certainly do less damage. Although they still can't carry someones fat @ss up the trail, is that such a bad thing. I've always carried everything I need into the backcountry but there should be an exemption for disabled people.

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hikerduane
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Re: Senate passes HR3022 66-12

Post by hikerduane »

Bad Man, I reread your last paragraph, agree there where I thought I read something different. My mistake.
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Bad Man From Bodie
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Re: Senate passes HR3022 66-12

Post by Bad Man From Bodie »

JMat wrote:That being said... most of our trails have been made and maintained by horses and mules but that certainly doesn't mean they should have unlimited access to our forests and there certainly is a happy medium. Just because horses have historically helped build trails doesn't mean they should always be there.
With out a doubt! That is why there is a quota on stock in the highcountry and I agree with the quota. All I am saying is that horses and mules belong and people shouldnt hate on them so much. They have their place and are every much a part of wilderness travel just as walking is. The Indians and early explorers depended on the horse not.
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Matilda
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Re: Senate passes HR3022 66-12

Post by Matilda »

I tried not to bite, but can't help sharing some news, and venting.

The omnibus public lands bill is being heard by the House this Wednesday--great news for wilderness fans.

Those of you that support wilderness, please contact your representative (find his/her phone and email at house.gov) and ask him/her to vote for the lands bill without amendment.

For the rest of you, I can't wait until this passes and roads are NOT closed. Because this won't close any legal roads here in the Eastern Sierra. Look at the maps, people (available at Rep. McKeon's website). Black helicopters will not be following you. Locked gates will not suddenly appear across all roads into the mountains (as flyers posted in Bishop have alleged). I'm sure the government will still do plenty of things that you can complain about--here's one:

The Inyo NF travel management plan: http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/inyo/news/2009/ ... mgmt.shtml

If you really care about public lands, and aren't just ranting and raving against so-called "lock up" you should be participating in the comment period. Lots of meetings throughout the Eastern Sierra this month.
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Re: Senate passes HR3022 66-12

Post by AldeFarte »

Thought I posted this 1/2 hr. ago. My gimlet must have got in the way of my finger. Anyway, I must be one of the nutcases. Death by a thousand cuts will eventually start to hurt. jls
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Bad Man From Bodie
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Re: Senate passes HR3022 66-12

Post by Bad Man From Bodie »

I must be one of the nutcases too............... ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

Oh, and yes, locked gates do appear accorss open roads. Wierd ehh?
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