Recovery

How do you prepare for the rigorous physical requirements of high elevation adventure? Strength and endurance are key, but are only part of a more complex equation. How do you prepare for changes in altitude, exposure, diet, etc.? How do you mentally prepare? Learn from others and share what you know about training in advance for outdoor adventures.
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Sierra Maclure
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Recovery and excess Red Cells

Post by Sierra Maclure »

Hey there. I'm new to this site but I had to chime in on this topic. I've had a consistent experience with lethargy and brain slow down after descending from trips above 11,000 feet. The longer and higher I'm up the worse it is and the longer it lasts after I return to sea level. I'm a clinical lab scientist, which means when you get your blood drawn, I'm the one who runs it thru the machines and looks at it under the microscope. I've tested my own red cell and hemoglobin counts before and after such trips. I've had a 25% increase in both. One time it took 3 weeks to recover. I made a calculation using 120 days for the life of a red cell and calculated that it would take about 3 weeks to get back to my normal hgb after the excess died off. So.... I thought that might be the cause of the trouble. Counter intuitive but there it was. After all, many athletes illegally dope up with Epogen (the hormone made by Amgen to stimulate red cell production) to increase their hgb and increase their performance. I did find that as long as I was REALLY active when I returned to sea level (competitive masters swim workouts with a lot of breath-holding) I was fine. But otherwise, a lot of sleeping and brain funk. Sooooo, I came upon the idea to donate blood when I came down. After all, I had a few extra pints in my circulatory system beyond what I required at sea level. Bingo!! Lethargy and brain funk gone, and perhaps someone else's life saved. This bioassay has proved to me that it's the red cell increase that's the culprit, not tissue and electrolyte recovery.
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ridgeline
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Post by ridgeline »

Hey Sierra Maclure, welcome to the site, interesting post!
After my last trip out above 12,000 ft I had a doctor visit the following day. My blood pressure was very low and my resting pulse in the office was 49. Both being lower than my last visit, both had the doc exited, Maybe just a coincidence.
I would think with extra blood cells the pressure would actually be up.
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mikehike
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Post by mikehike »

I try to rest one or 2-days before a big hike or back packing trip. I also try to Pre-hydrate before any sort of strenuous excercise, learned this from my soccer days. If I had a game at noon, start hydrating at 8:00am and try to drink 40-60 oz before a noon game, I do the same for hiking.

I stay away from all processed foods and gimmicky energy suppliments and even vitamins. I try to eat living foods as much as possible except for the proteins:

Greens-collared greens, broocoli, spinach, squash, salad either raw or quickly sauteed

Fruit: All Types-Cantalope ( has themost balanced vitamins of any fruit or veggy)

Carbs: Brown rice-sprouted wheat bread

Proteins: Egg whites-chicken-fish-peanut butter

Combined with tons of water 100-130oz a day.

You can get all the best proteins, carbs and vitamins from Normal foods, I try to go organic and grow as much as I can.

I did a 7-8 mile walk-jog hike yesterday, 1000-vertical (6-500 to 7,500) and I feel great today no aches or paines. I try to bike 3-5 times a week and I juggle a soccer ball everday whch builds leg muscles and mild weights.

To me the key is the right type of carbs and proteins, while hiking and feeding your body every 2-3 hours, along with water. I started eating sprouted wheat bread and peanut butter before rigourous activities, alot of Marathon runners use this combination.

I have had good recovery success with this sort of Eating lifestyle..

Then ofcourse Hot-tub and half bottle of Merlot....
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BSquared
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Post by BSquared »

I *really* like the idea of donating blood after a high-altitude trip to get rid of the altitude funk! Excellent idea, Sierra Maclure (any relation to the meadow of the same name?)!
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Trekker
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Post by Trekker »

Hi, Sierra, welcome to the board!

I'm going to take a stab at this and guess that the issues you are having are more blood volume related. The initial responses to ascent to altitude include an increase in hematocrit concentration; however, this is initially less due to increased polycythemia. or red blood cell production, and more due to loss of blood volume brought about by dehydration, due to a number of factors including decreased thirst drive, increased respiration rate (and therefore loss of water through breathing) and an increased diuresis, or urination drive. This loss of blood volume is maintained for the duration of the average backpacker's trip, and is not fully reversed no matter how much you drink ( of course a longer acclimatization is a different story). Once back at sea level, the body will usually get right back to rehydrating in order to reset homeostasis. Therefore, I see the issue as being either 1) you are not rehydrating properly after getting back home and therefore the viscosity of your blood is affecting blood flow and therefore oxygen delivery (if you give blood, they of course tell you to drink lots of fluids, so you have more motivation to drink) or 2) you may be hyperhydrating and diluting your RBC count, which could also affect oxygen delivery. When you exercise, you increase the flow of blood due to increased heart rate and decreased resistance of the blood vessels in the working muscle, so this may explain why you feel good when exercising.
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Sierra Maclure
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Post by Sierra Maclure »

Geat responses to this re-acclimation issue. In the last few years since being post-chemo for breast cancer, it hasn't been that much of an issue. My red (and white) cell production has been permanently decreased. They don't tell you this when their infusing the stuff. This makes me struggle at high altitudes but returning to sea level isn't such a problem. At first I thought I was just getting old until I compared pre & post chemo pre & post hike hemoglobin values. On my trip to Darwin Bench this last summer over Lamark Col (12880), I came home with a 12 hemoglobin. I used to get up to a 15. Oh well, at least I'm still alive, and still sauntering the heart of the Sierra. I figure I'll be up there with a walker eventually. :retard :
Keep truckin'. You guys are lucky. Your normal is a 15 at sea level.
-SM
PS. Sierra Maclure is a name I've taken that just feels right. It has to do with Mt. Maclure in Yosemite. And also, it's great being part of this community. Thanks!
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Trailtrekker06
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Post by Trailtrekker06 »

nice smugmug site, SMcC ! I'll check out more when I get home late.........
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Trailtrekker06
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Post by Trailtrekker06 »

.....lateR ! :)
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Ranboze
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Post by Ranboze »

I'll agree with Trekker on this one. It usually takes longer than a few days at altitude to increase RBC mass - I don't want to say for sure exactly how long because I'd have to look it up. So it's plausible that the increased Hbg level is a function of dehydration. Sierra Maclure - have you looked at your retic count upon returning? I wonder if the reticulocyte count (baby red blood cells) would be increased in states of acute hypoxemia induced erythropoeisis (RBC production)? I also agree with Trekker about the increased Hbg levels leading to increased viscosity and possibly decreased blood flow and oxygen delivery.
Walking outside is where I find what's inside.
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Sierra Maclure
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Post by Sierra Maclure »

Good point Ranboze. Why didn't I think of that. I think I'll do some pre-and post-retic counts next time I'm up high for awhile, but like I said, I'm not producing red or white cells like I used to (dang). Now we have a machine that counts retics and I don't have to do them by hand in the microscope (yuck). That's probably why it didn't occur to me to do them before. They are such a drag to do that sometimes I feign sleep with my forehead on the occulars. I did think of dehydration as the culprit, but after drinking a ton and still feeling flakey I scratched it as the cause. I've had friends on the same trips that mentioned the same condition and others that had no problems. Hmm... maybe I can get some of my friends to shed some blood and be part of the experiment. :)
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