Maverick's 2016 Annual HST Meet-up

A forum to initiate member meet-up. Looking for a hiking/climbing/fishing/skiing/etc. partner, or are you planning a trip where you wouldn't mind having some company? Last minute invites can be just as fun as a well-planned group trip (sometimes even better) so don't be shy! And be sure to post a trip report to the appropriate forum when you get back.
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snusmumriken
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Re: Maverick's 2016 Annual HST Meet-up

Post by snusmumriken »

Hesitant to post this. But 23 people coming together at an off trail location? That is just wrong. Methinks some should consider alternative plans. Great people, I understand but totally contradictory to purposes of wilderness. Woe to the person heading to the Lyle Fork of the Merced expecting to find solitude only to find dozens of people scattered thru out the basin. I think there are better places for large numbers of people to come together.

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This is not just off trail, it is an incredibly pristine location. No use trails, no ducks, no micro trash, no fire rings, no established campsites. It is maybe the only place I have been in my life where there was no indication that another human had been there, ever.

It is very hard, if not impossible, for a large group not to leave a trace. Flattening of fragile vegetation at the tent sites. A faint trail that quickly forms from footsteps going from the campsite down the lake to filter water. Many cat holes. Yes even a group like this, where everybody is dedicated to LNT, will in fact leave a trace.

Let's do the 2016 Annual HST Meet-Up somewhere else. Please!
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Re: Maverick's 2016 Annual HST Meet-up

Post by Hobbes »

I really get a kick from the plaintive missives about keeping the Sierra pristine, without proper consideration & appreciation that we're all very, very lucky they even exist in their current state. To me, it indicates a certain lack of historical understanding about the way California developed as an extractive economy and its relationship to US colonization from the east.

First & foremost, we all need to recognize that the only reason the Sierra are the way they are today is because miners didn't find sufficient resources to justify further investment - and it wasn't for lack of trying. How many people know the true purpose of the Tioga road? Mather wouldn't have been able to purchase it on behalf of YNP if Bennettsville had been a success. One need look no further than Pine Creek to see what the vaunted, pristine Sierra would look like if other important resources had been discovered.

Of course, we don't even need to get into the issue of water ... but I will. Hetch Hetchy, Big Creek & LA DWP are the obvious subjects. But how many people know Inyo FS was created in 1907 as a watershed for an aqueduct that wasn't yet built? And that its original footprint was a small region around the Mammoth caldera (ie source of the Owens). Imagine for a moment if Inyo hadn't been created/expanded to its current size and/or the aqueduct hadn't been built. Lake Tahoe anyone? Or, how about the suburbs of Sacramento & Fresno stretching up into the hills?

So, count your blessings. Secondly, when one suggests restricting certain experiences for others, it not only reeks of elitism, but renders one subject to criticism of hypocrisy if they fail their own purity test. For instance, why is Mammoth Lakes, a city with a population of 8K smack dab in the middle of the
Sierra, given a pass as if it has always existed and is therefore a "fact of nature".

Ultimately, what we are presented here is nothing more than a reactionary impulse when faced with certain immutable facts, such as population growth in general, and California specifically. The solution is not to scream at the sun & moon, but to deal with managing reality in way that most comports with the greatest good. That means not exclusivity, but awareness and sensitivity to cultural norms. Every activity has its own code of ethics, its rules of engagement. Doesn't matter if it's surfing, hiking, sailing, skiing, etc. The way to continue the happiness of everyone engaged is to teach how the system works that best preserves the enjoyment of all.

The people are going to come; they are coming. Do you want them taking mules, riding bikes, trailing wheeled trolleys, building structures, etc, or would you prefer that they walk on their own two feet and practice LNT to to their best ability? That's the battle - not whether or not they're there in the first place.
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Re: Maverick's 2016 Annual HST Meet-up

Post by maverick »

Hi Kristin,

Appreciate your concerns.
This is not just off trail, it is an incredibly pristine location. No use trails, no ducks, no micro trash, no fire rings, no established campsites. It is maybe the only place I have been in my life where there was no indication that another human had been there, ever.
Which is why it was chosen as this years destination.
It is very hard, if not impossible, for a large group not to leave a trace. Flattening of fragile vegetation at the tent sites. A faint trail that quickly forms from footsteps going from the campsite down the lake to filter water. Many cat holes. Yes even a group like this, where everybody is dedicated to LNT, will in fact leave a trace.
Which is why there may be three separate camps designated, 8 per as required by Yosemite NP.
Let's do the 2016 Annual HST Meet-Up somewhere else. Please!
Sorry, but destination like this one, will always be where Meet-up locations will be held, because it represents the core of what HST's spirit is all about. With that said, keeping the wild, wild, by minimizing our impact on it, is also part of what HST is about, so your concerns are noted Kristin.
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I don't give out specific route information, my belief is that it takes away from the whole adventure spirit of a trip, if you need every inch planned out, you'll have to get that from someone else.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
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Re: Maverick's 2016 Annual HST Meet-up

Post by markskor »

Hobbes wrote: why is Mammoth Lakes, a city with a population of 8K smack dab in the middle of the Sierra, given a pass as if it has always existed and is therefore a "fact of nature".
Actually, Mammoth Lakes is not part of, or smack dab in the center of, the Sierra - We are located in the Long Valley caldera....Sierra starts a bit west, other side of the San Joaquin watershed.
maverick wrote:Appreciate your concerns, Kristin .
This is not just off trail, it is an incredibly pristine location. No use trails, no ducks, no micro trash, no fire rings, no established campsites. It is maybe the only place I have been in my life where there was no indication that another human had been there, ever.
Which is why it was chosen as this years destination.
It is very hard, if not impossible, for a large group not to leave a trace. Flattening of fragile vegetation at the tent sites. A faint trail that quickly forms from footsteps going from the campsite down the lake to filter water. Many cat holes. Yes even a group like this, where everybody is dedicated to LNT, will in fact leave a trace.
Which is why there may be three separate camps designated, 8 per as required by Yosemite NP.
How are three sites (close together) any better?
Let's do the 2016 Annual HST Meet-Up somewhere else. Please!
Great idea!
maverick wrote:Sorry, but destination like this one, will always be where Meet-up locations will be held.
Respectfully, would better if read, "Destinations like this one will always be where (Maverick's pick of his annual) Meet-up location will be held." The Sierra is vast, lots of other places to "Meet-up" too...places not as remote... maybe not as fragile? Perhaps might be better to just go elsewhere instead of this year's one?

Like many here, Mav operates under his own guidelines - maybe others can follow suit/make up their own itineraries instead? While not really that concerned with any HST group here would leave any major (lasting?) "trace" above Hutchings Meadow, still agree, IMHO, the location chosen may require a bit more respect than 24 people coming together there, all at one time.
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Re: Maverick's 2016 Annual HST Meet-up

Post by Hobbes »

Just got a reservation for an entry on Tues, 7/26 along the High trail:

D1 Tue - TI lake via PCT
D2 Wed - Blue lake via SHR
D3 Thurs - meet-up
D4 Fri - Lyell via Vogelsang/Evelyn
D5 Sat - Donohue/Agnew via PCT/River

Per the reservation site, as of today there are only 3 other High trail permits available for that entry date; there were none for the River trail.

Of course, you can always do a walk-in - my usual style - but I make an exception in these cases and get a reservation.
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Re: Maverick's 2016 Annual HST Meet-up

Post by Rockyroad »

Hobbes, thanks for the reminder. I just got a permit for the River Trail for Sun July 24. I'm slower than you and I plan to do some exploring.
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Re: Maverick's 2016 Annual HST Meet-up

Post by schmalz »

Just catching up on this thread...

I think it's hilarious that ya'll are talking as if 24 people are actually going to make it when it's all said and done. Based on turnout from the previous few years, I'd be surprised if you can fill one of those 8 person campsites.
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Re: Maverick's 2016 Annual HST Meet-up

Post by maverick »

I think it's hilarious that ya'll are talking as if 24 people are actually going to make it when it's all said and done. Based on turnout from the previous few years, I'd be surprised if you can fill one of those 8 person campsites.
:)
No matter what the turnout, it will be a fun time, see you there Schmalz. :nod:
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I don't give out specific route information, my belief is that it takes away from the whole adventure spirit of a trip, if you need every inch planned out, you'll have to get that from someone else.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
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Re: Maverick's 2016 Annual HST Meet-up

Post by Hobbes »

If anyone happens to recall, the earliest objections to the meet-ups were that they were too distant for such a quick get together and turn-around. But of course, that's the entire point in the first place: to provide a challenging mix of trail & cross-country/off-trail hiking for experienced backpackers in order to meet others of their own kind in a setting suitably rewarding for such an effort. You know, a community.

Here's a brief recap of the shortest possible routes - the paths I took (and will take) 'natch:

2014 Wales Lake - 21 miles via Shepherd pass
2015 Kaweah Basin - 27.2 miles via Shepherd pass
2016 Merced Basin - 22.6 miles via SHR (23.6 miles via Tuolumne Meadows) [Don't know the mileage from Isberg]

Unless you're an experienced ultra-light thru-hiker (not only that, but one who is currently in great shape and doing 25 mile days), these numbers are nothing to sniff at. That is, we're talking a minimum of two (2) days in and two (2) days out. So, four (4) days of tough hiking for what? To meet a few other like minded individuals, say "hi", and then hike out?

That's why while there's a lot of talk up front, the actual number of people who actually pull the trigger and make it is much smaller than the initial commitments.

PS There were some (heated) private discussions about another remote part of the range leading up to Mav's decision on the YNP location. I was actually on the side (by myself?) of saying it was too far and threatening to take my ball home. I don't think I changed anybody's mind, but I lucked out when a fire swept through the area, taking it out of consideration.
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Re: Maverick's 2016 Annual HST Meet-up

Post by KingMouth »

Hobbes wrote:Just got a reservation for an entry on Tues, 7/26 along the High trail:

D1 Tue - TI lake via PCT
D2 Wed - Blue lake via SHR
D3 Thurs - meet-up
D4 Fri - Lyell via Vogelsang/Evelyn
D5 Sat - Donohue/Agnew via PCT/River

Per the reservation site, as of today there are only 3 other High trail permits available for that entry date; there were none for the River trail.

Of course, you can always do a walk-in - my usual style - but I make an exception in these cases and get a reservation.

I got busy at work yesterday and didn't get my Tuesday River trail permit the first day available.

When I checked today they were all gone, so I jiggered my plans so I'm coming in Monday on the High Trail. It works out better as I'd rather have a great view when going uphill so I can take pix during my frequent rests. I'd also rather take longer and see more than hurry past areas that need to be explored a little. (And I'm slow.) Looks like my 8 day trip became a 9.

Anyone who is serious better not snooze, or the permits will be gone. I guess that is the limiting factor on the number of people at this meetup.
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