Help planning for late 2016 trip

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kwyjibo
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Help planning for late 2016 trip

Post by kwyjibo »

My boyfriend and I are planning a late season two week trip to evolution valley coming from South lake and ending in north lake. I have been on two backpacking trips and I have hiked several times, so I guess my experience level is 2. My boyfriend is a 4. He extremely experienced and has hiked just about everywhere in the Emigrant Wilderness in all conditions. We will also have our two dogs with us.

My question when would you guys recommend we do this trip. We would love to see the fall colors for some great photography and he also wants to go trout fishing. The biggest fear though is getting stuck in a big snow storm. We don't mind thunderstorms and we plan to prepare for snow, but would like to avoid it.

Thanks in advance for any advice.
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maverick
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Re: Help planning for late 2016 trip

Post by maverick »

Hi kwyjibo,

Welcome to HST!
We will also have our two dogs with us.
Their are no dogs allowed into National Parks.
Professional Sierra Landscape Photographer

I don't give out specific route information, my belief is that it takes away from the whole adventure spirit of a trip, if you need every inch planned out, you'll have to get that from someone else.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
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kwyjibo
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Re: Help planning for late 2016 trip

Post by kwyjibo »

Thanks for the heads up. That is something I actually never considered. I assumed you could since I take them with us everywhere in the sierras. I never considered we would be hiking far enough into the Sierras to get to the other side. On a side note.... It is a dumb rule. I feel much safer at night with them in the tent with me. I understand the need to ban dogs in popular areas like Yosemite, but why in remote areas especially when you can bring in pack animals.
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Sierra Miguel
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Re: Help planning for late 2016 trip

Post by Sierra Miguel »

kwyjibo wrote:On a side note.... It is a dumb rule.
Do you know their reason for it?
I feel much safer at night with them in the tent with me.
Safer from what?
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seanr
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Re: Help planning for late 2016 trip

Post by seanr »

Just look at a good map of the Sierra. There is tons of great stuff between SEKI and YNP, including many opportunities to see fall colors in October. If fall colors are truly a priority, car camping or short backpacks close to trailheads (and therefore generally east of the national parks) is better. Plus then it is easy to bail from any big storms. The show is a little different every year with lots of choices of locations legal for dogs. http://www.californiafallcolor.com
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kwyjibo
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Re: Help planning for late 2016 trip

Post by kwyjibo »

Yes I do know the reason. It just makes me mad that not all domestic animals are banned. Pack animals are just as disruptive to the wilderness, and as a hiker it is very unpleasant having to walk through their poop.

I feel a sense of security because they can hear better than me, and have woken me up to the presence of other critters in the area.

We are doing this trail. The restriction on dogs just means they will have to be kenneled for two weeks instead of having fun.
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Sierra Miguel
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Re: Help planning for late 2016 trip

Post by Sierra Miguel »

kwyjibo wrote:Yes I do know the reason.
Do tell. I don't know it.

What I do know is that the rangers and park superintendent (who makes the rules) live out there, day after day, year after year. So I don't think you should be second-guessing them so casually.
Pack animals are just as disruptive to the wilderness, and as a hiker it is very unpleasant having to walk through their poop.
I dislike that too, and think they should have to bury it like we do.

But pack animals are prey animals, unlike dogs, so aren't about to confront the wildlife.
I feel a sense of security because they can hear better than me, and have woken me up to the presence of other critters in the area.
As your BF can tell you, the biggest thing to be afraid of while sleeping in your tent is that a dead tree branch might fall on you. The wildlife only cares about your food. You're more likely to create a danger by having a dog around to confront any bear that shows up.
they will have to be kenneled for two weeks instead of having fun.
A friend told me of a kennel—more like a dog spa—in the Dublin area, where the dog was having second thoughts about going home with its owner, it was having so much fun.

You know it only takes an average body about five days to do that South-North Lake loop? You must have some side excursions planned.

Be sure to get your permits early. It's a popular route.
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rlown
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Re: Help planning for late 2016 trip

Post by rlown »

kwyjibo wrote:Thanks for the heads up. That is something I actually never considered. I assumed you could since I take them with us everywhere in the sierras. I never considered we would be hiking far enough into the Sierras to get to the other side. On a side note.... It is a dumb rule. I feel much safer at night with them in the tent with me. I understand the need to ban dogs in popular areas like Yosemite, but why in remote areas especially when you can bring in pack animals.
When planning a trip, you really need to read and understand the rules for the areas you are entering. They are current rules; not really to be questioned or debated unless you do that through their public comment channels or requests to the Superintendent of the area/region. You go to their websites, make calls, ask for information, and share your intended route.

We call it research.

There are lots of places that allow dogs. There are other threads here that have TR's that show the dogs with the hikers.

Late 2016.. hmm. who knows? It's going to be a weather call, and maybe a day before you go. I'd aim at early Sept as a target but adjust based on what our Winter looks like this year. Personally, Oct is too late. It's colder and shorter days. Storm window is open as it is right now.

This question is better asked in July 2016. But you can still plan your trip and make the calls and do the research.

Pack animals have been used here longer than you've been alive, thrice. They are not going away.

And please say Sierra instead of "Sierras" from now on.
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Re: Help planning for late 2016 trip

Post by Wandering Daisy »

The tone of these replies has been a bit harsh. We really are not a bunch of grumps. Your post simply had a few "red flags" that indicated that you had not done much "homework" before asking questions.

First, two weeks is a LONG backpack. Carrying 14 days of food and fuel means anywhere from 20-30 pounds in your pack! Two weeks also means a LONG ways out from a reliable weather report. Late season indicates additional pack weight to accommodate cooler weather. A serious storm is more probable. Few of us would do a 2-week trip late season. (You did not define "late season". September would be vastly different than October.)

As for dogs, have you done a 2-week trip with two dogs before? That is a LOT of dog food! As for the rules regarding no dogs, you simply have to play by the rules. There are large wilderness areas that do allow dogs other than the Sierra. For the future you may want to check out the Wind Rivers in Wyoming, for example.

Consider two 5-6 day trips vs one 2-week trip. For example, do your south lake to north lake trip first (earlier) and then do an east-side trip to a basin on the east side so you do not have to cross the crest. If weather gets bad you can then easily bail out. Or if weather is bad, just do day hikes. Rock Creek, Sabrina basin, or Pine Creek (First Lake, to Sixth Lake) or the Minarets are examples.

Lastly, DO read the tons of great trip reports here. Pay attention to the time of year so you can get a feel for typical conditions.

Good thing is that you have a year to figure this out! Good Luck.
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kwyjibo
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Re: Help planning for late 2016 trip

Post by kwyjibo »

Sorry if I have sounded harsh. I shouldn't have posted it when I did. I was in the middle of a big fight with someone.

As far as Sierra vs Sierras I also apologize. I did not realize a typo would offed so many.

I take my dogs with me everywhere and they are well conditioned for backpacking. They even carry their own packs with the appropriate weight for their size. I did not realize that they wouldn't be allowed on this trail since when looking up the trail I didn't see much on it. I never said I was going to take them after finding out they are not allowed. Also, I firmly do believe that it is a dumb rule since the restrictions is based on arbitrary boundary lines. I completely agree they shouldn't be allowed in popular areas like Yosemite, but to allow them on one side of a line and not the other is silly. I also mentioned pack animals because they are very destructive to the environment and unless they are fed a special diet, the seeds of non native plants can pasd through their digestive system and then sprout.

Here is a website that lists the reasons they are not allowed. http://www.nps.gov/pub_aff/e-mail/pets.htm

Anyways back to the original question. We want to take lots of side excursions, and really explore the area. I have been doing lots of research and that is why I joined this forum. My boyfriend has done a number of two week trips and we both understand what all goes into it. We have been stocking up on light weight gear. We did a week long trip out of crab tree this past summer as an introduction for me into the world of backpacking. We also did a 30 mile in 3 days trip because I'm crazy and underestimated how much work it would be.

I want to get a permit as soon as we can that is why I'm trying to get some expert advice. My boyfriend has always gone in the spring and summer time, and wants to do something different this time. We know that weather is dependent on what is going on at the time, like how this year we have a big El Niño event. However, we were hoping to get a good sense of how late season weather is in the high Sierra. That way we can buy any necessary gear that we may not currently have, and make the proper preparations. We are trying to figure out how different September and October is, so we can decide how late into the season we want to go.

I was trying to answer the questions in the pinned post about how to ask for tips on planning a trip. I never meant to start all these problems.
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