High Sierra Topix

rlown wrote:k. lets not go down this path over coffee grounds.

LNT is the goal. Minimize impact is probably better. Most here are mindful of what they do out there.

rlown, I thought we were being civil and mostly in agreement. Sorry if I offended...

You're not offending. I just don't want it to go "there".

I'm not offended by anything said and I've been choosing my words as carefully as I can so I'm not mis-interpreted as getting personal or offensive. I like the mental gymnastics.

So,

"Leave no trace is an ideal that none of us ever achieve. Each visit to the wilderness results in an impact. The act of driving there is an impact in itself. Do you bicycle to the Sierra? That sort of Göran Kropp approach would impress me as much as your willingness to carry your feces for days at a time."


Seems hyperbolic to me. "leave no trace" and "Pack it in, pack it out" are really very simple concepts that do not include bicycling to the trailhead. They're merely an approach to being more sensitive to the fact that the mountains we recreate in are not capable of dealing with the volume of abuses humans have subjected them to. Changing our approach to minimize our impact is the key concept. It's really very simple. As simple as packing out a bit of poop.


""Weight does not matter at all." You can't be serious! This is only true if you are preternaturally strong like Norman Clyde or are simply strolling through the backcountry. For most people it matters a lot. For some walkers it's everything. There have been many trips I simply could not have contemplated doing were it not for the diminishing weight of my pack."


Are you being serious here? Really, we were talking about the weight of wet coffee grounds. If somebody is willing to pack it in, they should be willing to pack it out regardless of its new weight. If not, leave it home. This is not about all of the other decisions we make to minimize our loads, its about responsible trash removal and how coffee grounds play into it.


"Cooked versus uncooked rice weight has roughly the same water absorption as you get in coffee grounds. Maybe you like yours soupy? Rice soup is actually a very nice Thai dish."

Interesting. My rice absorbs twice its volume in water. My coffee grounds don't do nearly that. Even if they did, my argument would not change one bit.

"I'm glad you see it as a line to be drawn and not black and white as your bumper sticker slogan could lead one to think."

If you can pack it in, you can pack it out is very black and white. Leave no trace is an approach well written about in our community. They're not bumper sticker slogans.

For me, personally, I hate that coffee pouch stuff and I hate instant coffee, but I'm not willing to drag around wet grounds or extra kitchen stuff, so I drink instant swill- sigh, I love good strong coffee. I never intend to have leftovers to drag out, but my appetite isn't always there. So, I often carry out the extra along with the poop. Regardless of it all, my bear cans are much lighter when I leave that when enter.

You could dry spent coffee grounds in the sun to dry them. I think this is a case of something minor for a short trip, but major for a long trip. Personally, if I am going out 10 days and have to stuff 10 days food in my bear can, I skip the "real" coffee and go with instant, simply because the real grounds are too bulky to bring in the first place!

The original question however seems to ask about what impact. Coffee grounds are suggested for compost. They are pretty good for the soil. They could attract animals, however. In the big picture, I think the "impact" is small. Yes, pennies add up. I am not sure that "Carry it in, carry it out" concept had coffee grounds in mind!

This discussion seems to now have devolved into pushing people's buttons, pragmatic conservationist vs. idealistic conservationists. In the big picture I think we are on the same side of the fence. You want to see junk- go on an off-road vehicle trail camp! These guys need to get the message.

I'm glad nobody's offendend. I do like to debate but I wasn't trying to push buttons.

I'm sure I'll be with the vast majority in that I won't be packing out my poo or filtering out the solids in my urine while walking in the Sierra. And I drive there and understand well the impact that this activity has on our wilderness. When it comes to coffee grounds I take them with me on the rare occasions that I bother brewing up for real but I'm still not convinced it's an important impact. Just another small one. An increment. I was chatting with a wilderness ranger of some sort in Yosemite a few weeks ago. He was complaining about how he'd go into the backcountry and run into the very same people he'd given permits to only to find them doing all of the things he'd explained to them (and that they'd apparently understood) were wrong and illegal. He was very frustrated about that. How do you reach people who think it's okay to litter at home or in the backcountry? It seems to me it's too late to educate and enforcement is virtually impossible.

Fire rings, litter, toilet paper, vegetation damage, exposed feces....

In that respect, coffee grounds aren't a big issue, not that I'm advocating dumping them.

VIA is the only way to go! Thus, no need to worry about grounds.

Hi PWS,

Welcome to HST!
Backpackers coffee article: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... fAfjlO5dcA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Great article

My rule is, always leave camp cleaner than I found it and never do anything that would cause harm if 10,000 people did it. Maybe Chic Bowdry could detect coffee grounds in my camp, but the way I disperse grounds I think you'd have to be able to read sign pretty well to tell any difference.

If I have a fire, I burn the grounds. If not, I carry them out. The only thing I bury is poop and if you do Whitney, you carry that out too.

There is no logical reason to carry out coffee grounds if they are disposed of discreetly