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Another Nevada Falls Tragedy

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Re: Another Nevada Falls Tragedy

Postby frediver » Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:15 pm

No way on the safety equipment.
Having any would imply a level responsibility to maintain it and "replace" it.
Stationing a ranger to protect people from themselves is another bad idea,
so is installation of a permanent safety cable across the flow.



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Re: Another Nevada Falls Tragedy

Postby maverick » Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:33 pm

Both of those ideas Artrock have liability written all over it.
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Re: Another Nevada Falls Tragedy

Postby SSSdave » Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:47 pm

When it comes to flowing water, I doubt many people have much if any experience even many of those who hike in our mountains. Sure there are a minority of we hard core backpackers that do have considerable experience fording cold streams but there are far more that do not. The reason is rivers in California in this modern era tend to be cold often very cold all year long which inhibits ever getting in. And that includes fording. Heck even among we backpackers, the majority are absolute wimps about quick dunks even after long sweaty dusty days on the trail and instead they brag about how many days they've endured without a shower.

A prime reason our rivers are so cold is because most river basins are behind networks of multiple hydro power dams that release water from their dam face bottoms in order to generate highest power. Down on the bottom where the coldest water sinks to. In the 1800s California still had many free flowing rivers that by late summer after snow melt wanes and reaching foothill elevations were a pleasant dip. Thus it was much more common for people in late summer to recreate along our low elevation Sierra rivers. In that way they learned how powerful river currents can be. Today there are few parks where people can actually swim in our rivers hence ignorance.
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Re: Another Nevada Falls Tragedy

Postby rlown » Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:29 pm

no dam above there, SSS. what is your point? And please be first person, and specific.
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Re: Another Nevada Falls Tragedy

Postby John Dittli » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:14 pm

Bill Morell wrote:
Somehow I don't see you taking a kayak over a 600' drop.


No, you won't see me in a kayak at all... That was strictly for MK's benefit!
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Re: Another Nevada Falls Tragedy

Postby SSSdave » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:26 pm

rlown wrote:no dam above there, SSS. what is your point? And please be first person, and specific.


To paraphrase my post, few mountain visitors in this era have much experience either swimming or fording powerful streams in part because California streams tend to be too cold all year long both at high and low elevations. A reason is most rivers are dammed releasing cold water from the bottom of dams. And of course streams at higher mountain elevations tend to always be cold because average temperatures are low even late summer. So even in late summer it is hard to find river water that is not too cold to swim in such that people might become familiar with river currents. Thus some visitors looking at rapids like above the Yosemite falls lacking experience, may poorly evaluate how dangerous such river currents might be.
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Re: Another Nevada Falls Tragedy

Postby AlmostThere » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:40 pm

Your assumption is that most people who visit Vernal are from California?

Yosemite gets tons of international visitors... People come from all over the world to die there.

It's a generality, but I don't think people have much concept of the dangers of fast current without at least a basic awareness training, and families go outside to play in water thoughtlessly all the time. People die in the Kings, San Joaquin and Kern as well as the Merced. I don't think it has a thing to do with opportunities to play in water, just with the increased risk that water represents. People can hike a thousand times and come within a gnat's hair of being dehydrated or lost, yet never figure that out... water is less forgiving and more likely to dish out consequences when you underestimate its dangers.
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