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A Strange Encounter

Grab your bear can or camp chair, kick your feet up and chew the fat about anything Sierra Nevada related that doesn't quite fit in any of the other forums. Within reason, (and the HST rules and guidelines) this is also an anything goes forum. Tell stories, discuss wilderness issues, music, or whatever else the High Sierra stirs up in your mind.
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Re: A Strange Encounter

Postby quentinc » Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:56 pm

balzaccom wrote:Sorry, but this IS the internet, and public by definition. I hope everyone here understands that?

This is a public forum--albeit a very nice, polite, and supportive one.


Balzac, I think the "big brother" concern is that either someone was doing an extremely focused job of snooping, or someone was actively forwarding posts to NPS to try to get George in trouble. Either of these scenarios is pretty troubling, notwithstanding the public nature of the Internet. Not to mention the fact that you don't check your First Amendment rights at the ranger station, or anywhere else.

Anyway, I just wanted to second what so many others have said, as to how valuable it is to have George's input here, and it would be a real shame if someone were trying to dampen it.



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Re: A Strange Encounter

Postby rlown » Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:03 pm

quentinc wrote:Not to mention the fact that you don't check your First Amendment rights at the ranger station, or anywhere else.


Actually, sometimes you do when your Org is under a lawsuit over certain topics. That's what we're taught in the Corp world. Not saying gd said anything that wasn't public, as I value his input here as well.

Some topics are best left non-discussed if you happen to be a member of either party during a lawsuit; directly employed or otherwise.
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Re: A Strange Encounter

Postby balzaccom » Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:11 pm

quentinc wrote:
balzaccom wrote:Sorry, but this IS the internet, and public by definition. I hope everyone here understands that?

This is a public forum--albeit a very nice, polite, and supportive one.


Balzac, I think the "big brother" concern is that either someone was doing an extremely focused job of snooping, or someone was actively forwarding posts to NPS to try to get George in trouble. Either of these scenarios is pretty troubling, notwithstanding the public nature of the Internet. Not to mention the fact that you don't check your First Amendment rights at the ranger station, or anywhere else.

Anyway, I just wanted to second what so many others have said, as to how valuable it is to have George's input here, and it would be a real shame if someone were trying to dampen it.



Fair enough--but I think there is a big difference between an organized effort by government to control what we think and say (which is what I understand by "Big Brother") and someone who has a dog in this fight, and is trying to pay attention to everything that is posted on the Internet about this topic.

Heck, I do work for my clients where we run Google alerts on everything that gets said about a product or promotion...and it's quick, easy and free. And it shouldn't surprise us that Google let's people know about any Internet/public mention of their product or promotion. Or politcal football.

It's hard to say what George might have posted that caught their attention---but it sure isn't hard to see how they found it.

Sorry. I don't mean to curtail conversation on these boards. And i do continue to deeply value George's input on everything we discuss.

I'm just saying that this is a public forum. It's pretty much the same as writing a letter to the editor--albeit we have a smaller readership than some papers. And we should all post accordingly.
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Re: A Strange Encounter

Postby oldranger » Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:22 pm

Hey guys (and gals)

Despite the fact that George was given the impression that it was a member of the public communicating with the NPS I would expect that it is much more likely that someone from the NPS would be reading posts in the forum. I know that if I had any responsibility remotely related to managing the NPS backcountry I would monitor what was being said if only to get ideas how to better meet the needs of users. Now if I happened to be the Parks Law Enforcement Officer I might want to have someone talk to a ranger who was participating in the forum about being "carefull" but especially so when there is a lawsuit ongoing. Knowing that George is a really bright guy they would not say so in so many words.

Mike
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Re: A Strange Encounter

Postby rlown » Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:42 pm

it's an indexed forum.. all this stuff can be found by multiple search engines.. As are all the other backpacker forums we might participate on. And yes, I agree. You're all being watched.
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Re: A Strange Encounter

Postby maverick » Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:45 pm

Hi George,

Was very irate after reading this! First reading that someone here might have
reported you to your superiors is crazy enough, but than reading that they are
investigating your postings is way over the top!
Your postings have never been in an official capacity, only when there is a search
going on.
Dedicated rangers who spend there whole lives helping people, and making our
national parks a better place should be supported, not treated like some criminal
for posting on a website.
Hope your manager is reading this post too.

- Will be calling/writing my representative asking why taxpayers money is being
spent on such frivolous investigations, doesn't the NPS (SEKI) management have
better ways to allocate there time and our money!

- Called a friend in Colorado after reading you post, he attended college, and then
worked with Ken Salazar when he was a senator in Colorado. He said that Ken would
be quit teed off hearing about this, especially since he has a great deal of admiration
for backcountry rangers, and most long term NPS employees for that matter.

- There are several of us who have made substantial donations over the years, we are
talking substantial amounts, which can be reallocated to another park if this is the
way SEKI NP management continues to treat there dedicated backcountry rangers.

If your higher ups continue to harass you please let me know and we will
make that call to Ken, our representatives, and reallocate our donations!
HST= Wilderness Adventurer who knows no bounds, except for their own imagination.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
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Re: A Strange Encounter

Postby rlown » Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:51 pm

Mav, This isn't about donations.. this about a current lawsuit. The judge doesn't care about donations; or it better not be. :paranoid:
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Re: A Strange Encounter

Postby maverick » Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:01 pm

Rlown,

My comments are addressed to the NPS manager of SEKI dealing with George's file
and nothing to do with the HSHA lawsuit.

Edit: Surprised more folks haven't spoken out. Guess as long as it doesn't effect you
personally you don't want to get involved or speak out against a fellow HST member
and dedicated ranger being harassed /investigated by the NPS, and advised what he
can say or write, this is a free country, is it not! I am in the USA, am I not?
This could be very well one of the ways we all will loose our right's one day, by acting
like a bunch of sheep and robots.
Since when can the NPS dictate what one can write or say, I though we had a
constitutional right to free speech, something called the 1st Amendment in the Bill of
Rights.
Sorry for the rant, but enough is enough. Sometimes you just have to take a stand.
HST= Wilderness Adventurer who knows no bounds, except for their own imagination.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
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Re: A Strange Encounter

Postby Jimr » Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:50 pm

I think it's more important to not exacerbate this into an issue. George said it was no big deal and a pleasant conversation. Reminding us all that his opinions are his own and not that of NPS or any other official office seems like a satisfactory end to the discussion, lest it fester into something more. I don't think it unreasonable or "big Brother" ish of an organization to request this to be made clear considering a pending lawsuit and the public nature of the internet. Why would they not seek to assure that private opinions from those under their employ be clearly stated as an individuals opinion and not reflecting the position of the entity?

What I get from George is his annoyance that somebody may have been underhanded in their compiling and delivering his views to superiors instead of being straight forward with him personally. As stated above, it is very likely that his posts were stumbled upon from within.

Just sayin', sometimes, it's better to let a sleeping dog lie.
What?!
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Re: A Strange Encounter

Postby sparky » Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:57 am

Balz your post implies that since it is public, that it is ok for a government agency to investigate what you say. This notion, to me, is against everything this country stands for. Perhaps that is not what you meant.

I see what you mean about someone with a personal interest vs. a focused investigation. I don't really see much of a difference, unless you mean to imply conspiracy.

IF you give an inch, they take a mile. Again it isn't about this particular case, but its about the implications of what is allowable. It is the air. It is ok for SEKI to hold this guy accountable for what he said. Its logged in the data base. Name rank and number.

I don't believe it is a conspiracy, more of just the way the winds are blowing.

Perhaps it doesn't apply to this particular case. That doesn't change the fact that our rights are being violated all over the place with no recourse. No accountability. From the Police officer on the street to all levels of government. Our rights take a back seat to the flavor of the week.
Last edited by sparky on Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: A Strange Encounter

Postby gdurkee » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:21 pm

Woof. Yes. I really appreciate the support for me and the 1st amendment (and a general fear of creeping big brotherism), it really didn't rise to that. Just wanted to post a heads up myself, clearly restate my background and role when posting, and hope that anyone with a question or problem would contact me directly. Sleeping dogs for sure. But thanks for the thoughts!

But the ironing board photo. Egad! Mike is right. My physique just went to heck after buffing up for that. Actually, I now remember some of the order of battle. My last supervisor was the fitness coordinator for the park. She had hinted that, perhaps, I needed to buff up in preparation for a new fitness test required to keep my job. I sent her the photo to show I was ready (and a domestic love-god as well).

I hate it when a gnarly supervisor blushes (or giggles hysterically).
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Re: A Strange Encounter

Postby quentinc » Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:49 pm

George, I like you new signature tag. I hope his Holiness has a sense of humor.
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