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Giving Out Route Info On HST - Members Responses Requested

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Giving Out Route Info On HST - Members Responses Requested

Postby maverick » Thu May 12, 2011 5:00 pm

Eric wanted me to run this by you to see what you thought of this, and then have
a vote.

I would like to know how you all feel about enforcing the policy of getting new members
to read the "SUGGESTIONS FOR REQUESTING TRIP ADVICE" announcement, by requesting
them to do so politely, and getting our current members not to post suggestions,
especially on cross country routes, that could endanger an inexperienced backpacker
until the newbie posts there experience accordingly, also by putting any posts that
come up after the request (by a moderator) to the newbie, on hold, and then request
the poster to wait till the info is been given.
Not only would we be distinguishing ourselves from other sites that just give out folks
any kind of information, no matter what there experience level is, but we would be
showing that we care about the well being/safety of our members here at HST!
IMO this would say a lot about HST, and would make us stand above the rest even
more, and with such distinction, and professionalism, it would increase our membership
even more.
It would alleviate a lot of frustration for example when a new member asks for info on
a difficult route, and then 7-8 posts in, you find out for example that the OP considers
there climb up Clouds Rest a difficult class 2 climb or backpacking to Echo Lake gives
them the experience to do the SHT.
These actions by the mod/admin would be done politely, and would catch on quickly
after intervening just a few times.
Would you be in favor of such actions to ensure our members safety, or do you consider
qualifying new members, holding off with route info until they give us some of there
backpacking experience, and not allowing answers to these posts till this info has been
supplied "communistic"?
Would you be in support of these actions or not?
Please post your replies.
Thank You
HST= Wilderness Adventurer who knows no bounds, except for their own imagination.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org



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Re: Giving Out Route Info On HST - Members Responses Requested

Postby rlown » Thu May 12, 2011 6:06 pm

I'd be in support of that if we could just have a standard boiler plate intro across both the fishing hole and backpacking forums, outlining back country experience or desires. Seems if we can force someone in the BP forum to read that entry, we can request an intro.

Russ
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Re: Giving Out Route Info On HST - Members Responses Requested

Postby Wandering Daisy » Thu May 12, 2011 6:29 pm

Talk is cheap. People exaggerate and lie all the time on the internet. I do not know how you avoid that. I think better if OUR replies are accurate and indicate the difficulty and OUR experience. We should error on the cautious side and avoid loose descriptions such as "easy" or "difficult".. Be specific - such as, "steep, 40-degree snow, poor run-out, crampons needed." And when we say "class 2" we need to define it. I think the expierience of those who ask does finally get out as the post goes along. And yes, we should ask the person who posts to follow the rules of posting a question. Now that I think about it, I have never done that -put my qualifications out there when I ask a question! Shame on me!
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Re: Giving Out Route Info On HST - Members Responses Requested

Postby maverick » Thu May 12, 2011 6:45 pm

WD wrote "People exaggerate and lie all the time on the internet."
A liar will be a liar, and there only fooling themselves in the long run.
We cannot control or avoid that, but the folks who do come aboard and are keeping
it real deserves the same in return IMO.
HST= Wilderness Adventurer who knows no bounds, except for their own imagination.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
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Re: Giving Out Route Info On HST - Members Responses Requested

Postby SSSdave » Thu May 12, 2011 9:50 pm

Fine with me and worth a try. Come up with something and then let members discuss and tweak the result.

I've always been dismayed at the way many new visitors on web boards ask questions of all manner, not just about backpacking. Typical questions are far too simple without explanation. Like a person asking a question has some narrow intent and doesn't seem to be aware of how broadly their question will be interpretted by their audience. Like they haven't bothered to consider the importance of qualifying their question enough to get the kind of responses they are interested in. Sometimes a beginner person's knowledge in a particular area is just so basic they aren't able to pose a reasonable question but more often people haven't bothered to consider what to ask and just blurt something simple out. Also I suspect some novices that ask questions tend to be embarassed about their lack of experience and would prefer to have to sift through answers without making much input.

For example to a camera board a newbie asks "what digital camera should I buy?" On a national hiking web board a person on the East Coast thinking in terms of some advice for hiking locally asks a national web audience "What's a good place to go hiking? We can do 20 miles." Such examples are endless.

On the other side of the coin, a modest amount of advice by web members on hiking, backpacking, and mountaineering boards is mediocre or dangerous without reasonable consideration for the capabilities of the person asking. People tend to like giving advice to others about places they have hiked or backpacked from the perspective of their own styles regardless of how such fits another person's question.

For example an enthusiastic ultralight backpacker giving general advice with far too much mileage and vertical for a question from a person that did not specify their style. Or an accomplished peak bagger describing a route over a class 3 col to a general question from a person with unknown skills as "easy".
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Re: Giving Out Route Info On HST - Members Responses Requested

Postby Shawn » Thu May 12, 2011 10:36 pm

I'd support the idea. Perhaps the info could be "required reading" for registration. That way, the "polite" reminder would just be a given, no need to explain each time as it could be easy to overlook the notice as it exist today.

Somehow (can't really explain how) the message does convey a sense of community here rather than just another message board. :thumbsup:
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Re: Giving Out Route Info On HST - Members Responses Requested

Postby frediver » Fri May 13, 2011 1:44 am

I think Daisy has the better idea.
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Re: Giving Out Route Info On HST - Members Responses Requested

Postby sparky » Fri May 13, 2011 8:44 am

I think you guys are doing a great job as is, a general message accurately describing the dangers of cross country travel wouldnt hurt at all.

At the end of the day we are all adults and are responsible for ourselves.

Also we all relate to the world using our own personal reality tunnel. Don't expect anyone to share your sensibilities, but rejoice when they do.
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Re: Giving Out Route Info On HST - Members Responses Requested

Postby Troutdog 59 » Fri May 13, 2011 9:14 am

sparky wrote:I think you guys are doing a great job as is, a general message accurately describing the dangers of cross country travel wouldnt hurt at all.

At the end of the day we are all adults and are responsible for ourselves.

Also we all relate to the world using our own personal reality tunnel. Don't expect anyone to share your sensibilities, but rejoice when they do.


Well said Sparky.

I have only been bumping around this site for about 5 months, but I have gained a deep respect for many of the people who regularly post to these boards. But everyones different. In my professional endeavors, I have been involved in employee reviews that included reviewing self-evaluations. It always amazed me at the wide range of responses. Very compentent workers who gave themselves middle marks and indicated they had room for improvement to inexpeirenced workers who gave themselves the highest grades. Were they bad workers? Maybe and maybe not, just new to what they were doing. What do you do? The old saying says you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make em drink.

I think you guys already do a very good job of trying to educate folks about backpacking and the inherent risks, but as Sparky so wisely noted, "At the end of the day we are all adults and are responsible for ourselves." I'm sure SAR gets lots of noobs that made mistakes, but expeirenced hikers get in trouble as well such as the SEKI ranger who died in the wilderness.

Keep up the good work guys and please note that most of us are taking the advice given.

PS. I dont think the OP who asked about Alpine Col was being argumentive. OP asked, you guys responded, and the OP acknowledged the advice. Seems like the current approach worked to me. Again, keep up the good work!!
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Re: Giving Out Route Info On HST - Members Responses Requested

Postby rlown » Fri May 13, 2011 12:51 pm

maverick wrote:Eric wanted me to run this by you to see what you thought of this, and then have
a vote.

I would like to know how you all feel about enforcing the policy of getting new members
to read the "SUGGESTIONS FOR REQUESTING TRIP ADVICE" announcement, by requesting
them to do so politely, and getting our current members not to post suggestions,
especially on cross country routes, that could endanger an inexperienced backpacker
until the newbie posts there experience accordingly, also by putting any posts that
come up after the request (by a moderator) to the newbie, on hold, and then request
the poster to wait till the info is been given.


Ok, so I changed my mind based on some stuff that WD said. "people lie". No boiler plate. You're putting a LOT of emphasis on Moderator in your request. I think you can ask for more info, but If you gain a login, then it becomes a human interaction, and not about being a Moderator. Most don't read the pinned items, unless pointed to them, which is natural. Anyone can post any question or any answer they want. It's a pretty free country, unless they violate the HST guidelines.

I will post what I want to post to those that give me background info, even if iterative. Mav, even you have. I don't think we're putting anyone in danger by the subsequent dialog in the threads. At least some ask, and heed.

Respectfully,

Russ
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Re: Giving Out Route Info On HST - Members Responses Requested

Postby maverick » Fri May 13, 2011 2:04 pm

Rlown wrote "I will post what I want to post to those that give me background info".
And that is what this is about, giving us the back ground info from the start.

Rlown wrote "It's a pretty free country".
Where is this coming from, I do not mention anything about censorship, or taking
away one's right to free speech?
I served 6 years to up hold those rights!

Anyways, since most folks are deciding to read rather than participate, and
since the "suggestions for requesting trip advice" thread is all ready embedded into all
registration emails, which I just found out, I really think that folks coming aboard have
all ready been given the choice to give us this info, if they took the time to read it this
discussion would not be taking place, but many do not.
So staying with the current mode, in which we will just have to be diligent in directing
the new member to the "suggestions for requesting trip advice" from the start, will
make things go smoother for the new members, and current members in the future.
Thank you to those who took the time to give there input on the subject.
HST= Wilderness Adventurer who knows no bounds, except for their own imagination.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
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Re: Giving Out Route Info On HST - Members Responses Requested

Postby sparky » Fri May 13, 2011 3:18 pm

Would someone post here and lie to try to pry info from vets who otherwise wouldn't give that information to a newbie? I seriously doubt, and if it did happen, and someone ended up in a bad way, that is not on your hands.

Saying that....it is a different world now, and the sum of human knowledge on your smartphone sure puts a twist on things. More and more people are going to get themselves into sticky situations because of it, and that is just the universe playing itself out =D>
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