What does a govt shutdown mean for access to NF and NP? | High Sierra Topix  

What does a govt shutdown mean for access to NF and NP?

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Re: What does a govt shutdown mean for access to NF and NP?

Postby caddis » Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:00 pm

Ken M wrote:
caddis wrote:
Sorry Caddis, but that is massively inappropriate to blame people whose jobs are at risk for breaking the law, who are doing exactly what the leaders of this country, WHO YOU VOTED FOR, have required of them. The poor sap at ground level is not in a position (nor should they) to ignore the policy set by Congress. You don't like this, blame the people at fault, who made the decision to take us down this road.
This doesn't make any sense to me, can you clarify?

*who's job is at risk and why?

*What law breaking are you talking about?

*I didn't elect ANY leader to wage a petty campaign against American's in order to make them as miserable as possible in order to "win a game."

*That "poor sap" at ground level works for you and me and if he can't give a valid and legal reason why he is denying someone access to public property then he probably should be questioning the person who issued his marching orders

*I do blame those in Washington but that doesn't excuse the individuals from all those federal agencies that are screwing the people.
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Re: What does a govt shutdown mean for access to NF and NP?

Postby rlown » Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:07 pm

I agree with caddis. Just because the govt shuts down on their own accord, doesn't mean we don't get to access public lands (sans bathroom, but we know how that works anyway)

I'm pretty sure obama care doesn't affect most of us anyway other than raise rates. um.. Obama?
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Re: What does a govt shutdown mean for access to NF and NP?

Postby KathyW » Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:46 pm

caddis and rlown - I'm with you guys. I'm very upset at how the Department of Interior and the USDA has handled the shutdown. There's no reason to limit access to many of the areas they have closed just because the nonessential employees are furloughed. It seems like they just want to make a statement. What they have done doesn't reflect well on the administration of these public agencies.
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Re: What does a govt shutdown mean for access to NF and NP?

Postby artrock23 » Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:47 pm

caddis wrote:
Ken M wrote:
caddis wrote:
Sorry Caddis, but that is massively inappropriate to blame people whose jobs are at risk for breaking the law, who are doing exactly what the leaders of this country, WHO YOU VOTED FOR, have required of them. The poor sap at ground level is not in a position (nor should they) to ignore the policy set by Congress. You don't like this, blame the people at fault, who made the decision to take us down this road.
This doesn't make any sense to me, can you clarify?

*who's job is at risk and why?

*What law breaking are you talking about?

*I didn't elect ANY leader to wage a petty campaign against American's in order to make them as miserable as possible in order to "win a game."

*That "poor sap" at ground level works for you and me and if he can't give a valid and legal reason why he is denying someone access to public property then he probably should be questioning the person who issued his marching orders

*I do blame those in Washington but that doesn't excuse the individuals from all those federal agencies that are screwing the people.


Agreed, Caddis!

And re: "massively inappropriate"? ...:rolleyes:
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Re: What does a govt shutdown mean for access to NF and NP?

Postby snusmumriken » Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:42 am

caddis wrote:
phenocryst wrote: I talked to a guy who had tried to walk down to Devils Postpile but was met by a ranger who told him the monument was closed and he had to leave.
I bet that ranger felt like a real idiot. (or at least he should have)


The Devils Postpile is closed due to the shutdown.
If you don't like it, take it up with your elected officials.
Please don't blame the rangers, they are just doing their jobs.
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Re: What does a govt shutdown mean for access to NF and NP?

Postby rlown » Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:44 am

and now the furloughed will most likely get retroactive pay for not doing their ground level jobs. sigh.
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Re: What does a govt shutdown mean for access to NF and NP?

Postby caddis » Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:49 am

snusmumriken wrote:
The Devils Postpile is closed due to the shutdown.
Why? Did you not read what someone said earlier? (For that matter, did you read what I said later?) The rest of the area is open (except campsites). So why close a trail to an area of the forest that does not need federal employees when the rest of the forest is open?

If you don't like it, take it up with your elected officials.
That's a cop out. Realistically the only time that happens is once every 2 to 6 years (depending on the elected official) You are basically asking me to accept these foolish tactics. I'll choose to take it up with the government workers that have chosen to aid and assist the A-holes in DC
Please don't blame the rangers, they are just doing their jobs.
They're not robots.
Last edited by caddis on Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: What does a govt shutdown mean for access to NF and NP?

Postby caddis » Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:02 am

For those that still haven't figured it out, here is another local example:

Meanwhile, the Sierra National Forest and Sequoia National Forest — while remaining open — have closed established campgrounds, forcing people to make other arrangements.
Eric Mart, president of California Land Management, a Palo Alto company that operates campgrounds in the Sierra National Forest, said he was told to close all camping sites by noon Friday. Refunds will be available to those with reservations, he said.
The order encompasses thousands of campsites and will cost the company hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost camping fees, he said.
Mart said he can’t understand the government’s decision to shutter the campgrounds. Camper fees pay for operation of the sites and his company receives no federal appropriation that could be tied to the budget stalemate, he said. “We haven’t even gotten an explanation on how they’re able to do this to us.”
Campground concessionaires have private-use permits — similar to contracts


Why should a government shut down necessitate shutting down a private enterprise that actually works?

This company is losing business because some idiot has decided to take his ball and go home.
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Re: What does a govt shutdown mean for access to NF and NP?

Postby HikeSierraNevada » Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:30 pm

This is a great example of what government actually is, a bunch of people like Rangers and maintenance workers trying to do their job the best they can given the limited resources they have. We all know government is not perfect, it's never been perfect and it will never be perfect. It's our right to criticize government, but I'm getting tired of hearing the very people who wanted to "shut it down" since 2010 complain because, by golly, they finally shut it down. Now they don't like the way it's been shut down.
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Re: What does a govt shutdown mean for access to NF and NP?

Postby caddis » Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:34 am

HikeSierraNevada wrote:This is a great example of what government actually is, a bunch of people like Rangers and maintenance workers trying to do their job the best they can given the limited resources they have.
Odd, the examples listed don't seem to support your statement.

but I'm getting tired of hearing the very people who wanted to "shut it down" since 2010 complain because, by golly, they finally shut it down.
That's a bit of a straw man argument. I don't know of anyone that has wanted to shut down the government nor is that what is being discussed right now

Now they don't like the way it's been shut down.
Can you answer the question from my last post?
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Re: What does a govt shutdown mean for access to NF and NP?

Postby schmalz » Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:47 pm

This thread got offtopic a bit eh?

I was in the Eastern Sierra over the weekend. As expected, the roads are open but campgrounds and bathrooms are closed. It is actually pretty hard to find a bathroom north of Mammoth when you are hitting up the trails and not going into town!

One thing I found to be odd was that the campground and trailhead bathroom at Lundy Lake were still open on Saturday. The campground was buzzing with people. I guess they just didn't follow the directive there? Figured I'd pass along the info for people looking for a campground :)
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Re: What does a govt shutdown mean for access to NF and NP?

Postby HikeSierraNevada » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:17 pm

Caddis, there are so many examples of Tea Party Republicans ready to shut down the government, actually wanting to shut down the government, that I don't know where to begin.

This Fox News article should be the most compelling. It explains how the shutdown was planned for months.
http://radio.foxnews.com/2013/10/06/gov ... koch-bros/

"Cut it or shut it," Republican Rep. Mike Pence of Indiana shouted at the Tea Party rally.

Just watch Fox News for all the commentary you want about how the shut down is really not that bad. Some even think it's great.

There's an entire Tea Party playbook "Defunding Obamacare Toolkit for Activists" choke full of all the spin you hear today - all the same talking points, recommended tweets, exactly what you hear today.
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/wp-cont ... -Final.pdf

Part I: Possible Responses to Questions from Members of the Media about Defunding
Obamacare
1. What happens when you shut down the government and you are blamed for it?
>
We are simply calling to fund the entire government except for the Affordable Care
Act/Obamacare.

Back to my point: "government" is just people doing their jobs as best they can given the resources they have. Government not a boogie man stealing candy from babies. Just trying to add some perspective about what it must feel like to have your office shut down for some ideological reason. And then to top that off, people expect extra effort to keep things going.
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