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What does a govt shutdown mean for access to NF and NP?

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Re: What does a govt shutdown mean for access to NF and NP?

Postby mediauras » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:21 am

I think they would have a hard time gating off various roads to trailheads. People are still out there and are legally allowed to be out the duration of their permit. Closing a road means they're locked in.



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Re: What does a govt shutdown mean for access to NF and NP?

Postby DavePloessel » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:38 am

Maybe a sticky thread on which roads are gated? After spending almost 3 months in a cast I am finally about to go backpacking again the weekend after next... Even though it's only going to be a couple miles into the backcountry, I will be damned if I'm going to let a bunch of morons in DC prevent me from getting back into the mountains.
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Re: What does a govt shutdown mean for access to NF and NP?

Postby GreenhornBackpacker » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:06 am

Now the Mammoth Times is saying that the Tioga Road is open. Other reports say that you are not allowed to stop to 'recreate'. But how are they going to tell the difference between cars parked at the Wilderness Center parking lot who were there before the shutdown and those who parked after? And who is going to do the enforcing if the employees are furloughed?
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Re: What does a govt shutdown mean for access to NF and NP?

Postby ChasingRainbows » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:25 am

according to dot.ca.gov:

HWY 120
"IS REOPENED FROM CRANE FLAT TO 5 MI WEST OF THE JCT OF US 395 /TIOGA PASS/
(TUOLUMNE, MONO CO) AT 0930 HRS ON 10/1/13"

I was planning on heading to Yosemite this weekend and camping at Porcupine Flat or up in on of the NF campgrounds near Tioga Pass, those are probably gated off I would imagine.
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Desolation Wilderness, Eldorado NF

Postby FeetFirst » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:52 am

The recreation.gov website is down "due to a lapse in federal government funding" and is where one would normally go to reserve permits for Desolation Wilderness, Eldorado NF (as well as many other NFs wilderness permits). I called the Eldorado NF Pacific Ranger District station to see about a same day permit, but received a recorded message saying they were closed due to federal govt. furloughs. Great. I'm one to follow the rules, but...

I'm going for it.
I'm still rather convinced that you can achieve more than you've ever dreamed of if you just lower your standards.
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Re: What does a govt shutdown mean for access to NF and NP?

Postby vitaminC » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:57 am

I was also planning on Desolation this weekend. Will probably make alternate plans and hope that the govt can get its act together soon.
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Re: What does a govt shutdown mean for access to NF and NP?

Postby calipidder » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:11 pm

I leave on Friday for a 19 day roadtrip through Yellowstone, Grand Teton, Canyonlands, Capitol Reef, and Zion. Absolutely fuming right now. Not excited, not happy about this trip I've been carefully planning for a year. Just stressed and angry.
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Re: What does a govt shutdown mean for access to NF and NP?

Postby maverick » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:19 pm

Cadipidder wrote:
I leave on Friday for a 19 day roadtrip through Yellowstone, Grand Teton,
Canyonlands, Capitol Reef, and Zion. Absolutely fuming right now. Not
excited, not happy about this trip I've been carefully planning for a year.
Just stressed and angry.


Well the best parts of Grand Teton National Park are outside the gates with the exception
of OxBow Bend.

Hwy 89 runs the entire length of the park along the east side. You can reach the barns
and all the pullouts along 89 including Snake River Overlook. You can also park at the Schwabacher Landing road and walk in. That road was already closed this year because
of sequester.

Oxbow Bend is inside the park so wont be accessible, nor is Jenny Lake if the gates are
closed.

Canyonlands and Capitol Reef should not be a problem to access, plenty of backroads,
Zion might be an issue.

Why not go to Grandstaircase-Escalante NM? Plenty of road access with beautiful scenery?


Canyonlands and Capital Reef I would not worry about, especially if you have a 4 wheel
drive, Zion is another story.

The road out Gros Venture will be open.

Access of backroads of Canyonlands and Capitol Reef should not be problems with a
4 wheel drive. Zion may be an issue, but why not go to Grandstaircase-Escalante NM
instead, all the roads in will be accessible, and the scenery is outstanding.
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Re: What does a govt shutdown mean for access to NF and NP?

Postby Tom_H » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:12 pm

vitaminC wrote:I was also planning on Desolation this weekend. Will probably make alternate plans and hope that the govt can get its act together soon.


Since all the trailheads originate at points of open access (no gate many miles away from trailhead), I wouldn't hesitate just to enter Desolation without a permit, same for Hoover, etc. If the backcountry rangers aren't there, what are they going to do? Even if they are there, if you say you tried to get a permit and no one was available, what are they going to do? I'd still be respectful to them and follow all the rules (fires, bathroom use, etc.) as usual. If they told me to leave, I'd politely say that with the government shut down, I am exercising a peaceful protest against it via this non-violent act of civil disobedience. The WWII memorial at the national mall was locked off at midnight. Today there were numerous WWII vets in there respectfully visiting it. I didn't see any LEOs arresting them.
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Re: What does a govt shutdown mean for access to NF and NP?

Postby rlown » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:22 pm

FeetFirst wrote:The recreation.gov website is down "due to a lapse in federal government funding" and is where one would normally go to reserve permits for Desolation Wilderness, Eldorado NF (as well as many other NFs wilderness permits). I called the Eldorado NF Pacific Ranger District station to see about a same day permit, but received a recorded message saying they were closed due to federal govt. furloughs. Great. I'm one to follow the rules, but...

I'm going for it.


Go for it.

If a website was really down, you'd get a 500 error. They obviously have enough money to keep their site up and just put up a redirect message (yose did the same this am). Means the server is still up and drawing power and money.

Idiots really..

Leave a note where you're going with friends/family. Leave one in the car and enjoy. Weather looks good.

russ
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Re: What does a govt shutdown mean for access to NF and NP?

Postby vitaminC » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:46 pm

Tom_H wrote:
vitaminC wrote:I was also planning on Desolation this weekend. Will probably make alternate plans and hope that the govt can get its act together soon.


Since all the trailheads originate at points of open access (no gate many miles away from trailhead), I wouldn't hesitate just to enter Desolation without a permit, same for Hoover, etc. If the backcountry rangers aren't there, what are they going to do? Even if they are there, if you say you tried to get a permit and no one was available, what are they going to do? I'd still be respectful to them and follow all the rules (fires, bathroom use, etc.) as usual. If they told me to leave, I'd politely say that with the government shut down, I am exercising a peaceful protest against it via this non-violent act of civil disobedience. The WWII memorial at the national mall was locked off at midnight. Today there were numerous WWII vets in there respectfully visiting it. I didn't see any LEOs arresting them.


Sure, they're not going to arrest you and march you out in cuffs, but that doesn't mean you won't be hit with a hefty fine or charged with something later. Why risk it?
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Re: What does a govt shutdown mean for access to NF and NP?

Postby mediauras » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:03 pm

Tom_H wrote:Since all the trailheads originate at points of open access (no gate many miles away from trailhead), I wouldn't hesitate just to enter Desolation without a permit, same for Hoover, etc. If the backcountry rangers aren't there, what are they going to do? Even if they are there, if you say you tried to get a permit and no one was available, what are they going to do? I'd still be respectful to them and follow all the rules (fires, bathroom use, etc.) as usual. If they told me to leave, I'd politely say that with the government shut down, I am exercising a peaceful protest against it via this non-violent act of civil disobedience. The WWII memorial at the national mall was locked off at midnight. Today there were numerous WWII vets in there respectfully visiting it. I didn't see any LEOs arresting them.


Right on! I agree. In need of a quick fix weekend trip, I was going to go to Yosemite Friday but given ambiguity about access to TH's looks like we'll hit Desolation instead. And the weather's looking good, could be a nice quiet trip. :)
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