What does a govt shutdown mean for access to NF and NP?

[caddis]

The Devils Postpile is closed due to the shutdown.

Why? Did you not read what someone said earlier? (For that matter, did you read what I said later?) The rest of the area is open (except campsites). So why close a trail to an area of the forest that does not need federal employees when the rest of the forest is open?

If you don't like it, take it up with your elected officials.

That's a cop out. Realistically the only time that happens is once every 2 to 6 years (depending on the elected official) You are basically asking me to accept these foolish tactics. I'll choose to take it up with the government workers that have chosen to aid and assist the A-holes in DC

Please don't blame the rangers, they are just doing their jobs.

They're not robots.

[caddis]

For those that still haven't figured it out, here is another local example:

Meanwhile, the Sierra National Forest and Sequoia National Forest — while remaining open — have closed established campgrounds, forcing people to make other arrangements.
Eric Mart, president of California Land Management, a Palo Alto company that operates campgrounds in the Sierra National Forest, said he was told to close all camping sites by noon Friday. Refunds will be available to those with reservations, he said.
The order encompasses thousands of campsites and will cost the company hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost camping fees, he said.
Mart said he can’t understand the government’s decision to shutter the campgrounds. Camper fees pay for operation of the sites and his company receives no federal appropriation that could be tied to the budget stalemate, he said. “We haven’t even gotten an explanation on how they’re able to do this to us.”
Campground concessionaires have private-use permits — similar to contracts

Why should a government shut down necessitate shutting down a private enterprise that actually works?

This company is losing business because some idiot has decided to take his ball and go home.

[HikeSierraNevada]

This is a great example of what government actually is, a bunch of people like Rangers and maintenance workers trying to do their job the best they can given the limited resources they have. We all know government is not perfect, it's never been perfect and it will never be perfect. It's our right to criticize government, but I'm getting tired of hearing the very people who wanted to "shut it down" since 2010 complain because, by golly, they finally shut it down. Now they don't like the way it's been shut down.

[caddis]

This is a great example of what government actually is, a bunch of people like Rangers and maintenance workers trying to do their job the best they can given the limited resources they have.

Odd, the examples listed don't seem to support your statement.

but I'm getting tired of hearing the very people who wanted to "shut it down" since 2010 complain because, by golly, they finally shut it down.

That's a bit of a straw man argument. I don't know of anyone that has wanted to shut down the government nor is that what is being discussed right now

Now they don't like the way it's been shut down.

Can you answer the question from my last post?

[schmalz]

This thread got offtopic a bit eh?

I was in the Eastern Sierra over the weekend. As expected, the roads are open but campgrounds and bathrooms are closed. It is actually pretty hard to find a bathroom north of Mammoth when you are hitting up the trails and not going into town!

One thing I found to be odd was that the campground and trailhead bathroom at Lundy Lake were still open on Saturday. The campground was buzzing with people. I guess they just didn't follow the directive there? Figured I'd pass along the info for people looking for a campground

[HikeSierraNevada]

Caddis, there are so many examples of Tea Party Republicans ready to shut down the government, actually wanting to shut down the government, that I don't know where to begin.

This Fox News article should be the most compelling. It explains how the shutdown was planned for months.
http://radio.foxnews.com/2013/10/06/gov ... koch-bros/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Cut it or shut it," Republican Rep. Mike Pence of Indiana shouted at the Tea Party rally.

Just watch Fox News for all the commentary you want about how the shut down is really not that bad. Some even think it's great.

There's an entire Tea Party playbook "Defunding Obamacare Toolkit for Activists" choke full of all the spin you hear today - all the same talking points, recommended tweets, exactly what you hear today.
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/wp-cont ... -Final.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Part I: Possible Responses to Questions from Members of the Media about Defunding
Obamacare
1. What happens when you shut down the government and you are blamed for it?
>
We are simply calling to fund the entire government except for the Affordable Care
Act/Obamacare.

Back to my point: "government" is just people doing their jobs as best they can given the resources they have. Government not a boogie man stealing candy from babies. Just trying to add some perspective about what it must feel like to have your office shut down for some ideological reason. And then to top that off, people expect extra effort to keep things going.

[rlown]

Back to my point: "government" is just people doing their jobs as best they can given the resources they have. Government not a boogie man stealing candy from babies. Just trying to add some perspective about what it must feel like to have your office shut down for some ideological reason. And then to top that off, people expect extra effort to keep things going.

as best they can? they're still gonna get retroactively paid for not doing their jobs other than writing notes to leave. and a pension in some cases.

[jessegooddog]

Bathrooms at Mosquito Flats and Mcgee Creek Canyon are unlocked, but locked in Mammoth Lakes basin. Most of Rock Creek below RCL and McGee Creek Canyon were brilliant with color today, just gorgeous!

[kpeter]

There are two important ideas circulating in this thread, and they both are completely on-topic if you consider the topic in its broad sense of long term access to our public lands.

1. Responsibility of government employees.

Nearly all of the government employees we are apt to meet will indeed be taking "marching orders" from others.

Under normal circumstances I want them to follow their orders. I want them to write citations when they catch people building fire rings where they are not allowed. I want them to write citations when they catch a group that is chopping down trees or camping on green grass ten feet from waterline. I want them to cite fishermen who catch more than their limit. I want them to build the trails we pay for and to issue permits in a fair manner, rather than taking bribes.

Since I expect them to follow all of these orders, I can't very well complain when they also follow an order to evict me from a closed park. To say otherwise would make me a hypocrite--I want my government employees to always follow orders when I agree with them, but I want them to bend the rules and look the other way when it is not convenient for me.

Now, we might agree that closing the parks in the way it was handled was a bad policy decision. I don't really know the answer to that--I am not sure what the alternatives are when an agency runs out of money. But this has nothing to do with the ranger we will meet in the field.

2. Anger over the shutdown

As far as the shutdown is concerned, I am afraid I agree with HikeSierraNevada. Those individuals who are responsible for the shutdown represent a radical group that is using the rules of the House to defeat a democratic majority that actually favors moderation and compromise.

Nearly every one of those individuals would also repeal the Wilderness Act, would gladly defund the National Parks and Forest Service and make them 100% supported by timber sales and entrance fees. For that matter, most would auction off the national forests to allow the "free enterprise system" to let the marketplace regulate the land. These are exactly the same people that John Muir fought against--they have not really changed in 120 years.

Keep in mind that the parks and wilderness we now enjoy are a much better example of genuine socialism in this country than Obamacare, and have long been a target of conservatives. If the radical right wins this battle, it will just become the first of many more manufactured crises in which political blackmail is used to their advantage--each time further eroding the resources we need to care for public lands, and eventually culminating in the destruction of our public lands altogether--along with every other vestige of "public" over private.

[TahoeJeff]

The Federal Government is in debt to the tune of $17 trillion! When will it stop spending money is does not have?