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MOUNTAIN TOP REMOVAL-PETITION TO STOP

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MOUNTAIN TOP REMOVAL-PETITION TO STOP

Postby DAVELA » Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:40 pm

Mountain top removal is the process whereby mountains are chopped down so industry can remove coal or whatever resource.This is not mining with tunnels it is blowing up and removing it.The links below show pics and the petition to stop this wreckless practice.
I think everybody here has a vested interest in mountains.

http://www.ilovemountains.org/epa-guidance

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nationalme ... 96/detail/

Image



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Re: MOUNTAIN TOP REMOVAL-PETITION TO STOP

Postby rlown » Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:52 pm

no petition will stop that on private land, unless there is an endangered species involved. On public land, there was already a permitting process, which includes endangered species impact.
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Re: MOUNTAIN TOP REMOVAL-PETITION TO STOP

Postby markskor » Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:27 pm

Please pardon my consternation and probably in the minority here but…
This may be a worthwhile cause but, I find it hard to jump on this bandwagon immediately without a little more information.

From the looks of the one photo presented, I see little to indicate that much damage has been done on any grand scale…I see no rivers blocked, no major watershed altered. Maybe I am naïve here but I see nothing that cannot be bull-dozed over and sodded over/replanted afterwards…only the loss of a couple of hundred feet of some small “mounds” now topped off, some small valleys filled.
Faced with the conundrum of domestic jobs given, much needed natural resources utilized vs. any negative environmental impact reported, I see little here to indicate where “mountains” have been lost. Looks like a lot of small hills in an otherwise nondescript environment.

Anyway, my questions:
What are they mining? Is this private land? Are monies already allocated for clean up afterwards?
Have Environmental Impact reports been run/ recommendations followed...Any laws broken?
Are there any endangered species affected?
What are the “high standards” alluded to? What poisons?
How is the water table affected?
Are population centers close?
What are the cost savings of mining this way vs. underground?
Where would you have them put the tailings?
Would you stop all mining?
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Re: MOUNTAIN TOP REMOVAL-PETITION TO STOP

Postby AldeFarte » Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:21 pm

Last ,but not least, ALL mining interests must post a bond in order make sure the sight is returned to some semblance of a wild nature when the resource has been extracted.
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Re: MOUNTAIN TOP REMOVAL-PETITION TO STOP

Postby DAVELA » Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:51 pm

markskor wrote:Please pardon my consternation and probably in the minority here but…
This may be a worthwhile cause but, I find it hard to jump on this bandwagon immediately without a little more information.

From the looks of the one photo presented, I see little to indicate that much damage has been done on any grand scale…I see no rivers blocked, no major watershed altered. Maybe I am naïve here but I see nothing that cannot be bull-dozed over and sodded over/replanted afterwards…only the loss of a couple of hundred feet of some small “mounds” now topped off, some small valleys filled.
Faced with the conundrum of domestic jobs given, much needed natural resources utilized vs. any negative environmental impact reported, I see little here to indicate where “mountains” have been lost. Looks like a lot of small hills in an otherwise nondescript environment.

Anyway, my questions:
What are they mining? Is this private land? Are monies already allocated for clean up afterwards?
Have Environmental Impact reports been run/ recommendations followed...Any laws broken?
Are there any endangered species affected?
What are the “high standards” alluded to? What poisons?
How is the water table affected?
Are population centers close?
What are the cost savings of mining this way vs. underground?
Where would you have them put the tailings?
Would you stop all mining?


read the info on the website link or go here http://www.ohvec.org/galleries/mountain ... index.html

Jobs and financial gain do not trump health and environment in my book.We have infinite demand and finite supply which means we have to address this collision course or one day they will come to chisel away the sierras in the name of jobs and economic activity as well.
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Re: MOUNTAIN TOP REMOVAL-PETITION TO STOP

Postby AlmostThere » Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:13 pm

While I can appreciate your strong feelings on the matter and the drive to spread the word as far as you can... none of your pictures are in the Sierra. Yes, environmental issues are a worldwide concern. Yes, I am appalled by many crimes against nature. But you're in a Sierra oriented forum trying to make it sound like our mountains are in danger? Truth in advertising will gain you more support in the long run - what exactly will anyone gain from tearing down the Sierra Nevada? Answer some of Marksor's questions instead of pointing us at pictures. "one day they will chisel away the Sierra Nevada" - what makes you think that? Do you know how many failed mines there already are up there? Are you aware of what's already taking place in our mountains? Clearly not.

If you want to more clearly represent what is actually happening, instead of showing shots of West Virginia and vaguely hinting that our own mountains are in danger to get us going, I might be more inclined to consider offering support. But fear mongering generally has the complete opposite effect on me than you really want it to have.
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Re: MOUNTAIN TOP REMOVAL-PETITION TO STOP

Postby DAVELA » Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:11 pm

AlmostThere wrote: none of your pictures are in the Sierra. Yes, environmental issues are a worldwide concern. But you're in a Sierra oriented forum trying to make it sound like our mountains are in danger? Truth in advertising will gain you more support in the long run - what exactly will anyone gain from tearing down the Sierra Nevada?


Thanks for your negative contribution and snide reply.
The people of WV need not just local support but nation wide.Its called helping out a brother in need.What exactly does anyone gain from tearing down west virginia?Beleive you me,if there was a highly sought after material for warheads that was only available in the pinnacles of mt whitney summit area,you would see those pinnacles mined and blown to smithereens in a heartbeat.
Last edited by DAVELA on Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MOUNTAIN TOP REMOVAL-PETITION TO STOP

Postby AlmostThere » Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:50 pm

DAVELA wrote:
AlmostThere wrote: none of your pictures are in the Sierra. Yes, environmental issues are a worldwide concern. But you're in a Sierra oriented forum trying to make it sound like our mountains are in danger? Truth in advertising will gain you more support in the long run - what exactly will anyone gain from tearing down the Sierra Nevada?


Thanks for your negative and snide answer.
The people of WV need not just local support but nation wide.What exactly does anyone gain from tearing down west virginia?Beleive you me,if there was a highly sought after material for warheads that was only available in the pinnacles of mt whitney summit area,you would see those pinnacles mined and blown to smithereens in a heartbeat.


I'm not being snide, and you just lost any support you might have gotten from me with your hostility.

I want more information before I commit my limited resources to anything. You provided nothing but a few pictures. Perhaps you need to rethink your strategy in soliciting support from people.

BTW, Whitney is in a national park. No one's going to touch it any time soon.
Last edited by AlmostThere on Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MOUNTAIN TOP REMOVAL-PETITION TO STOP

Postby markskor » Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:55 pm

"The people of WV need not just local support but nation wide.What exactly does anyone gain from tearing down West Virginia? Believe you me,if there was a highly sought after material for warheads that was only available in the pinnacles of Mt Whitney summit area,you would see those pinnacles mined and blown to smithereens in a heartbeat."

Thoughts:

What...Who is tearing down West Virginia? I see little evidence of this assertion. BTW, This is a Sierra forum and yes there are thousands of open mines up there still.

After growing up in the Pittsburgh area...Everything there is now 400 feet lower than initial elevation due to years of coal mining. Seems like someone tore the whole state apart and still the Steelers are winning.

I am puzzled about the way you call others names and still avoid the questions.
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Re: MOUNTAIN TOP REMOVAL-PETITION TO STOP

Postby DAVELA » Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:20 pm

AlmostThere wrote:
DAVELA wrote:
AlmostThere wrote:

I'm not being snide, and you just lost any support you might have gotten from me with your hostility.

I want more information before I commit my limited resources to anything. You provided nothing but a few pictures. Perhaps you need to rethink your strategy in soliciting support from people.



kettle-pot-black

the links are chock full of info and pics if u bothered to open them before you criticize with suspicion my intent -and it wont tax your mouse clicking resources.

"BTW, Whitney is in a national park. No one's going to touch it any time soon."

please-in the name of military or energy "emergencies/crises" do you really think that that status would get in the way?

Anyway just trying to do something positive and greeted by negative naysayers.

Please point out where i was being hostile and what name calling did i do in my initial posts before today?The mud was coming from you guys only.

Puzzling indeed.
Last edited by DAVELA on Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MOUNTAIN TOP REMOVAL-PETITION TO STOP

Postby rlown » Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:37 pm

hmm. According to the website, the EPA is already taking steps towards elimination of mtn top mining (well not if it meets certain specifications which would mean permits). I sure hope you're also campaigning against Yucca Mountain and the storage of all the country's spent nuclear fuel so close to California.

No one is ever going to allow mining in a National Park. Not sure why'd you even float that idea as a potential. Hard enough to get a Park ranger retirement condo built there.
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Re: MOUNTAIN TOP REMOVAL-PETITION TO STOP

Postby AlmostThere » Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:23 am

LOL. You called me negative and snide and you ignored some pretty good questions to do it. You aren't hostile?

Present some actual information or please stop wasting our time.

Just in case you're missing it... like the last post, this is an invitation to prove me wrong in thinking your "cause" is a waste of time for us to continue to examine.

There's nothing negative about asking you where you got the idea that the Sierra Nevada will be torn down, either. Where did you get that idea? Still waiting for the answer.

Sure, I clicked around. Got some "sorry this no longer exists" pages on some of the links. Didn't answer the remaining questions you've been asked.

Here's another one: what's your 501c3 tax ID? looking up Ohio Valley Environmental Coalition returned no results.
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