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Everyone's thoughts on what's really causing fires

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:56 pm
by mrphil
Jerry Brown decided to again take this opportunity to follow the politician's mantra of "never let a good disaster go to waste" in using this year's fires to again bolster his global warming narrative. It's a factor, sure, but it isn't really fully correlated and supported by the science or those that understand the true nature of fire's causes and effects, firefighters themselves, and it really irritates me when political and economic agendas get in the way of facts. It usually addresses and solves nothing relevant in an honest discussion. Call me cynical in what I anticipate the takeaway in all this to be, but I personally feel that, along with the arguably smaller factor in higher temperatures,playing a role in what's going on, our main problem is that we have a crisis moment in how we've come to approach our unsustainable and unhealthy strategies and perceptions on fire, and that it's time to change it.

For your consideration, I'll put this out to begin: https://fabiusmaximus.com/2017/12/12/ca ... te-change/

I really would love to hear what everyone has to say on the subject.

Re: Everyone's thoughts on what's really causing fires

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:39 am
by gary c.
I truly believe that we are in some kind of global warming. I just don't think anyone has any real idea what is causing it. The entire world has gone from fiery inferno to oceans and rain forest to ice age including the Egyptian deserts. And that was before man had any influence at all on the world. I know that many will claim that it is all happening to fast for it just to be the natural changing climate. But what about those Mastodons that were found frozen alive with flowers they were eating still in their mouth? I accept that we have an influence but I don't think anyone really knows how much. I suspect that meteors and volcano ash or lack of has had more to do with our ever changing climate than anything else.

Re: Everyone's thoughts on what's really causing fires

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:13 am
by MountainMinstrel
It is a total lack of forest management that is creating this situation. Also there is the fact that for some reason, humans are not a part of nature. We are put here, if you believe Scripture, as stewards of the land. The bible tells us the story of three men who were given money to take care of. Two of them use the money to make more for their boss and were rewarded, but the third buried it for fear of losing money. He was not rewarded in fact what he had was taken from him.

We are being that third man when it come to the forest.


Here is another good read...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevor ... eb9a6470af

Re: Everyone's thoughts on what's really causing fires

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:53 am
by AlmostThere
Give the forests money for staff, and just see what happens when we go from temporary employees who are laid off every fall and have no permanence, no real job, no money for food and housing, to full time staff who can actually do what needs to be done.

Every administration has decimated the budget further - when it's been cut every year, you have no people to do the work any more.

Mismanagement at the congressional level. The Forest Service staff I know are dedicated to the forests, but burnt out, tired, and looking for jobs that have funding.

Re: Everyone's thoughts on what's really causing fires

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:54 am
by MountainMinstrel
AlmostThere wrote:Give the forests money for staff, and just see what happens when we go from temporary employees who are laid off every fall and have no permanence, no real job, no money for food and housing, to full time staff who can actually do what needs to be done.

Every administration has decimated the budget further - when it's been cut every year, you have no people to do the work any more.

Mismanagement at the congressional level. The Forest Service staff I know are dedicated to the forests, but burnt out, tired, and looking for jobs that have funding.
Agreed. The problem is the politicians.

Re: Everyone's thoughts on what's really causing fires

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:33 am
by balzaccom
MountainMinstrel wrote:
AlmostThere wrote:Give the forests money for staff, and just see what happens when we go from temporary employees who are laid off every fall and have no permanence, no real job, no money for food and housing, to full time staff who can actually do what needs to be done.

Every administration has decimated the budget further - when it's been cut every year, you have no people to do the work any more.

Mismanagement at the congressional level. The Forest Service staff I know are dedicated to the forests, but burnt out, tired, and looking for jobs that have funding.
Agreed. The problem is the politicians.
That's too easy an explanation. We vote for those guys. We don't vote for people who will make a difference, and we don't tell the people who have been elected how we feel. And then we blame them for not doing what we want. The problem is a little closer to home than the politicians.

Re: Everyone's thoughts on what's really causing fires

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:51 am
by Hobbes
Rather than get into subjective elements of politics and science, it's much easier to simply point out a simple fact: the state's population has doubled in the last 40 years.

For any born & bred native, it's trivial to answer the question as to where everyone lives: we simply look to the outward growth of the major metro areas, as well as peripherally linked regions stretching into previous rural communities.

Question time: what characteristics do all developed regions share? Answer: electricity, gas & water - both fresh & sewage. Second question: what do people do with fresh water, other than for personal use? Answer: they support landscape vegetation. Third question: what asset do people own that represents the majority of their investment savings? Answer: their home(s). Fourth question: in each/every wildfire, what is the absolute #1 priority of firefighters - other than saving lives? Answer: the protection of personal real property.

So, lets add it up: people now live in scattered communities throughout the entire state of California. I don't care how far you drive or how remote you think you're getting, chances are there are growing regions somewhere along your path. Secondly, the first thing new arrivals do is to begin cultivating their new communities in order to improve an aesthetic quality of life which in turn supports real estate values.

What's the net net? In the eons preceding human presence, wildfires occurred naturally in periodic episodes. Introduce people and (insurance) values, and fire suppression becomes a primary objective. Fire suppression leads to a build up of fuel, that when finally ignited - either naturally or intentionally - creates conflagrations that no longer resemble 'standard' fire behavior. Rather, they take on characteristics of the fire storms previously experienced in WWII in Dresden & Tokyo.

Realistically, the only way to protect communities like Santa Rosa, Redding, et al would be to (a) mandate desert landscaping; and (b) clear a 1-2 mile swath between the undeveloped forest/open spaces and the outermost suburban outpost. (Which, of course, would necessitate the continuing obliteration of outward regions as the suburbs continued to march outward.)

Chances of this happening: zero. Conclusion: this is the new normal.

Re: Everyone's thoughts on what's really causing fires

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:35 am
by rightstar76
Hobbes, I tend to agree with you. It's like the movie Superman where Jor-El can't convince anyone the planet is in danger. Everyone perishes except for his son. That may very well be our species' fate. And so very human. What, me worry?

Related (paywall, but you can read it for free on the author's blog):
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/past-six-day ... -k96c06sbb

Re: Everyone's thoughts on what's really causing fires

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:16 pm
by edhyatt
From over here....the UK, and soon to be hiking in the Sierra (a week)...I'd say...

My deep respects to the fire crews and those that support them.

One might play with causality and politics; **** and nature happen. You'll probably never know why.

Go hiking.

Re: Everyone's thoughts on what's really causing fires

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:53 pm
by rlown
edhyatt wrote:Go hiking.
Not if you can't breathe..