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Re: Everyone's thoughts on what's really causing fires

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:34 pm
by dave54
Just had a conversation with my SIL who was part of the LE - evac response to Paradise.

He said Paradise is 95% destroyed.

He also pointed out, Butte County has had an aggressive fuel reduction program for the county lands in place for years. Where the fire codes were enforced, the communities suffered much less damage.
Paradise, as an incorporated city, had their own city ordinances aimed at preserving the woodsy and forested character of the town. City regulations basically made it near impossible to remove overly dense trees and brush from your property. Fuels reduction work required a lengthy and difficult permitting process.

I hope the city leaders like their woodsy forested moonscape now.

Re: Everyone's thoughts on what's really causing fires

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:41 pm
by rightstar76
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Re: Everyone's thoughts on what's really causing fires

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:56 pm
by dave54
Just saw this on another forum

From this: http://www.goldenstatenewspapers.com/pr ... b09b1.html

...there's this:

"Several residents of the San Lorenzo Valley are pushing on the County board of supervisors to enforce local tree ordinances and require encroachment permits- arguing the environmental damage caused by cutting down trees is a bigger threat, particularly in the mountains, than wildfires."

Public flogging needs to be legalized for some people...

Re: Everyone's thoughts on what's really causing fires

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:44 am
by rightstar76
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Re: Everyone's thoughts on what's really causing fires

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:22 am
by SSSdave
There are even worse fire prone areas in our Sierra Nevada foothills with even more homes at risk than in Butte County. Drive any of the roads into the region northeast of Sacramento and west of Highway 49, Auburn to Placerville and one will see endless numbers of expensive homes built right into the blue oak savanna, digger pine, and chaparral environments.

The solution to home building in fire prone areas is rather simple but rarely discussed because of the huge power banking, real estate, and construction product corporations have invested in the status quo of how we build homes less expensively. Any solution that requires more expense will bite into their bottom line and thus affect for powers within, their number of days playing golf in Palm Springs. A house made out of non-flammable material and which prevents fire blown embers from entering, cannot burn. And there have always been ways to build so. A house built by pioneers out of rock and mortar would not burn even in dense chaparral. An example of how insane they are about all this preferring to point fingers at other factors is when building in such areas, despite decades of Santa Ana wind fires incinerating homes so, they are still allowing wood homes built in some areas without protection of attic vents from wind blown embers. Additionally politicians refuse to force that solution statewide on pre-existing older homes and rather leave it to local governments that of course hope it is rarely mentioned lest their constituents whine...DUH!

Re-read the whole thread minus some of the links then grabbed some statements.

mrphil >>>"... but I personally feel that, along with the arguably smaller factor in higher temperatures,playing a role in what's going on, our main problem is that we have a crisis moment in how we've come to approach our unsustainable and unhealthy strategies and perceptions on fire, and that it's time to change it. "

From mrphil linK: >>>"The bureaucrats and scientists who have tried to warn against the folly of treating every wildfire like a mortal foe have discovered their message is a nonstarter. That’s partly because so many businesses are keen to preserve the status quo...But the most powerful constituency in favor of perpetuating the futile war on wildfires is the people who’ve chosen to inhabit risky terrain...Humans have vastly expanded the spatial and seasonal “fire niche” in the conterminous United States, accounting for 84% of all wildfires and 44% of total area burned. During the 21-y time period, the human-caused fire season was three times longer than the lightning-caused fire season and added an average of 40,000 wildfires per year across the United States. Human-started wildfires disproportionally occurred where fuel moisture was higher than lightning-started fires, thereby helping expand the geographic and seasonal niche of wildfire."

balzaccom >>>"...The problem is a little closer to home than the politicians."

dave54 >>>"...Proliferation of building in the wildland interface is a big contributor. A fire starting anywhere near homes has different tactics applied at initial attack than a fire in remote areas. 60% of all new housing in the last ten years has been in high wildfire hazard areas. California also has a housing shortage which is pushing housing prices sky high. Banning construction in fire risk areas and tougher fire codes push housing prices higher. This puts pressure on planning commissions trying to control housing costs by waiving fire code regulations. It is a vicious spiral."

dave54 >>>"... Prescribed fires make smoke, and the same nearby homeowners that demand something be done are the first ones to complain and complain the loudest when prescribed burn smoke drifts into their yards. The same for mechanical treatments. No one wants heavy equipment scarring up the hillside behind their house. Despite the recent legislation exempting certain fuels treatments from environmental regulations, there will still be some group running to the nearest judge for an injunction. Some of these so-called 'environmental activists' (misanthropic luddites) need to doxxed and publicly shamed in social media."

dave54 >>>"...Paradise, as an incorporated city, had their own city ordinances aimed at preserving the woodsy and forested character of the town. City regulations basically made it near impossible to remove overly dense trees and brush from your property. Fuels reduction work required a lengthy and difficult permitting process. I hope the city leaders like their woodsy forested moonscape now."


Re: Everyone's thoughts on what's really causing fires

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:08 am
by freestone
Interesting data on the lack of... or late start of NorCal autumnal rains as a contributing factor to the current disaster.

https://twitter.com/Weather_West

Re: Everyone's thoughts on what's really causing fires

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:50 am
by longri
freestone wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:08 am
Interesting data on the lack of... or late start of NorCal autumnal rains as a contributing factor to the current disaster.

https://twitter.com/Weather_West

Thanks for that link. Daniel Swain usually has very interesting and intelligent observations. I read his monthly blog. It's a shame these latest comments are on twitter though. It's such a poor venue for this.

Re: Everyone's thoughts on what's really causing fires

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:09 pm
by freestone
longri wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:50 am
freestone wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:08 am
Interesting data on the lack of... or late start of NorCal autumnal rains as a contributing factor to the current disaster.

https://twitter.com/Weather_West

Thanks for that link. Daniel Swain usually has very interesting and intelligent observations. I read his monthly blog. It's a shame these latest comments are on twitter though. It's such a poor venue for this.
I think he was having issues with his blog provider, started to tweet instead and now I think that's his preference because he can easily and quickly share other followers who also offer up interesting weather insights. The Twitter social media is now used by all the disaster coordination agencies to get information out to the world.

Re: Everyone's thoughts on what's really causing fires

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:30 pm
by longri
freestone wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:09 pm
I think he was having issues with his blog provider, started to tweet instead...

What made you think that?

Re: Everyone's thoughts on what's really causing fires

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:25 pm
by freestone
longri wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:30 pm
freestone wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:09 pm
I think he was having issues with his blog provider, started to tweet instead...

What made you think that?
He tweeted it.