Mountain Changes?

Grab your bear can or camp chair, kick your feet up and chew the fat about anything Sierra Nevada related that doesn't quite fit in any of the other forums. Within reason, (and the HST rules and guidelines) this is also an anything goes forum. Tell stories, discuss wilderness issues, music, or whatever else the High Sierra stirs up in your mind.
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AlmostThere
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Re: Mountain Changes?

Post by AlmostThere »

oldranger wrote: Now on forest service land because of their restrictions on the use of chainsaws many trails do not get logged for years at a time and virtually never in a timely fashion that eliminates user trails going around downed trees.

I applaud those of you who volunteer to do trail work and clear what you can but reliance on volunteers and crosscuts is just not very efficient.
Not efficient, but all we got, until they re-fund the FS and change the regs... another huge issue, perhaps more so than reroutes and trail maintenance, is the total lack of money for roads and bridges. One washout on a FS road, and no one's maintaining anything from that trailhead for years....

We were cutting trees three days ago and a hiker goes by and says, "our tax dollars at work." Nope. My pocket change at work, because I paid for my food, bought the saw, and went out there to do something that multiple administrations have taken away from the forests. When forest administrators start writing grants on our behalf there's something rotten in DC.

The regs and policies need to change faster too, with the wacky changes in the weather patterns, so the employees are out there sooner and the gates get opened. I would have loved to do some of these mid-elevation trails much earlier, before it started to be 90F at 8000 feet like it was last week.

Maybe the park system could loan us some dynamite?
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Re: Mountain Changes?

Post by SSSdave »

Quite excellent list WD, well done!

No more little white plastic bottles of Cutter's mosquito repellent that sometimes popped open making a mess in one's coat pocket if it got underneath one's backpack waist belt.

Versus decades ago, the much worse August too often smoky skies today from the more frequent dry season wildfires across the state.

Today, powerful multi-mode LED headlamps and flashlights versus heavier much less battery efficient incandescent models of the past.

Today a savvy Internet weather person can use vast resources to understand what weather they are likely to encounter many days ahead with much greater confidence versus the crude much less confident sources as terse newspaper weather summaries and tv weatherpersons we had decades ago. Remember when one looked at the top of a newspaper front page for the section and page the more thorough weather report was on?

My Darn Tough socks today actually are lasting for years while those similar priced socks from the past all wore out in just a year or three.

So many remote lakes without effective spawning streams, especially in Yosemite, that decades ago had terrific rainbow and golden trout fisheries, are now fish-less. To once see an 18 inch trout swim along the shore of Spotted Fawn Lake!

Versus today's twist of lid latches against after reaching destination camp zones, the search for a big pine tree with just the kind of high branch to bear bag. And then the effort of tying one's rope onto a rock of the correct size and shape. Laughing at your partner's inept throwing or how his rock went up without the rope he inadvertently was standing on and then taking your turn showing how it is done. Oh and then looking about for a big stick to push up the sacks above where a bear might reach that would also be THE club for an imagined man versus bear battle.

Those evenings at popular lakes when one could hear distant clanging of pots and pans each half hour getting closer that kept one from going to sleep easily despite the fact you were really tired and sleepy. Then with each crackling sound of nearby twigs...

Pocket sized butane lighters versus all those packages and containers of matches.

7am Saturday morning July 4 in an enormous line at the Bishop Creek wilderness permit station with dozens of vehicles and sleeping bags crammed about all over the small area versus today months before bringing up the recreation.gov web site.

Those little coin batteries like the PX625 all early mechanical SLR cameras had for just their exposure meters that when backpacking one would bring a couple of spares for and without a camera would still function manually versus today all manner of digital cameras with much larger much more powerful batteries that won't even turn on without the battery.
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Re: Mountain Changes?

Post by Wandering Daisy »

Not all progress is utilized; I still prefer to use old fashioned matches from a box instead of a lighter. LOL
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apeman45
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Re: Mountain Changes?

Post by apeman45 »

The biggest change I have seen is seeing climate change in my lifetime that should take hundreds of years. Some high passes never cleared until August and now many years are passable months earlier. Algae growth in previous pristine lakes. Fishing - too many to list. Overuse extending far into the back country. Trees, bark beetles, and fires. Bears hardly hibernating in some locales. I am a fan of the permit quota system and I have seen improvements because of it. I do remember getting permits through the US mail and the ability to pick up any permit in a night drop box. I do agree with the need for the face to face pickup for all the weekend warriors who don't seem to interested in the rules.

In the mid 1970's it was $4.50 to get into Yosemite and $4 dollars for a camp spot.
The front country staffing levels and maintenance of our parks in the 1960's and 1970's. The parks were magical and pristine. The current funding of our forests and parks is atrocious!

Camping the night before heading into the backcountry has become another bit of logistics we never had to worry about. We used to show up on a weekday and snag a campsite before any trip.

I miss places like Horseshoe Meadows and Onion Valley being places to get into solitude quickly. The PCT south of Whitney was a favorite hangout and now looks like a hipster convention. I was on the Kearsarge pass trail 2 weeks ago and saw about 75 PCTers in the first 2.5 miles of the trail. There were 20 of them waiting for shuttles at the trailhead. Of course I always help hikers and crammed 3 into my car on my way down the mountain.

I do admit I miss the campfires and the ability to cook trout on the fire. I don't miss stinking like campfire and seeing fire rings everywhere.

Sierra South and North guides and paper topographic maps. I used to live near Menlo Park where the USGS was based and we would go there to get our maps.

Nightly bear raids. You either were good at counterbalancing or your trip ended early.

Being so confident in catching and eating fish that our food consisted of a bag of rolls and a couple cubes of butter and a block of cheese.
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Re: Mountain Changes?

Post by Tom_H »

There are a lot of observations that I would have made, but having already been said, I won't repeat. The one not listed is water clarity at Tahoe. When I moved there in '78, it had decreased from 150' to about 75'. The degree to which it has decreased since then is sad.
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Re: Mountain Changes?

Post by giantbrookie »

My first trip to the High Sierra was 1965 and my first backpacking trip was 1967. Here's some thoughts on changes.

First, the big picture. Yes the glaciers have receded and there are fewer and smaller permanent snowfields,but this really isn't very much of the mountain (ie we didn't begin the 20th century with big valley glaciers ). Overall the High Sierra has not changed that much. There are details in human use that have changed (see below) but the largest-scale patterns have not which include: (1) the vast majority of folks visiting the Sierra don't hike (ie don't venture off the road) and (2) of those that hike the largest number go a relatively short distance up certain trails. The vast majority (by area) of the backcountry (ie that which one must hike to) is really seldom visited, as was the case when I started hiking in the Sierra over 50 years ago. So, in spite of some of the things that have changed, the magic of being up there has not changed at all for me. It remains my very favorite place to go for recreation.

Now for what I see as the biggest among these small changes:
1. Road changes: In spite of improvements to the roads, the traffic heading up the west flank is much heavier owing to heavier visitation (mostly to road-accessed destinations), as well as local urban traffic in places such as the SF Bay Area where one has a much more difficult "escape" on a Friday afternoon/evening. The return on Sunday to the Bay Area has become pretty bad, too whether entering via 580 or 80. I remember when the Sunday 80 return started getting pretty bad back in the late 90s. Bear in mind I remember when 120 was a dirt road! Yes that includes going over Tioga Pass. I also remember when 120 went through Manteca as a two lane road with multiple stoplights. Through the 70s and 80s my dad and I would get hot under the collar when folks would have a stack of vehicles behind them and wouldn't pull over. By the 90s doing the 120 through Yosemite became so bad that I realized the best thing to do was simply to have some music I really liked playing...I don't sweat the traffic thing anymore, I just allow more time to get there and come back. Yes I remember the old 395 too. It IS way better now! Overall, though, if we look at the road improvements, balanced by the increase in traffic, I think the transit time to and from the destination has not changed by too much.

2. Technology, be it electronics or outdoor equipment. My parents got me my first backpack at some garage sale. It was like some sort of medieval torture device. It was heavy, not contoured to my body, and the small vertical frame members in the back were perfectly positioned over my shoulder blades so that my tee shirt was soaked with blood from my ravaged shoulder blades upon the completion of the trip. I remember when Mg-alloy frames were first introduced. My mom was the only member of the family to be granted one at first, but on my 10th birthday when the tradition of the more difficult father-older son trip was begun in our family, I was able to borrow my mom's pack and it was a joy. Even the concept of a waist strap seemed kinda novel back then, although part of that was my dad who liked to carry the lion's share of weight on his shoulders. I can honestly say that every pack I've had in the years after that became more and more comfortable and I transitioned from external to internal frame packs. Backpacking stoves have gotten better, too. Actually my first memory a portable stove set up (ie something smaller than the usual Coleman car camping stove) was my dad using a Sterno Canned Heat set up during a dayhike on Mt Lassen in 1965. Then came the era of backpacking stoves that were fine for boiling water but had no finesse of a simmer setting. Now we have some stoves that you can actually simmer stuff on. Fishing equipment (that I use)? Most of it hasn't changed much. Z-Rays were around from the get go (I didn't really start fishing seriously until the mid 1970s though). Some of the best lightweight spinning reels were pretty much around by the 1970s. Reels in subsequent years have tended to be lighter but tend to lack the ruggedness and durability (so I will buy reels that are the most 'old school'). I think sectioned backpacking rods have been around awhile and I tend to have a favorite model that gets discontinued and I then have to go find another one. My fishing arsenal has changed a bit as I've learned stuff, but overall that can be regarded as close to constant for me. Electronics? It has changed things quite a bit for many, but not for me. I still revel in my paper topo map and, more often than not, my only piece of electronics is my point-and-shoot digital camera which replaced my beloved, but much heavier, manual SLR about 18 years ago (and I've been through multiple editions of the point-and-shoot).

3. Human changes part I. Habits and distribution of folks in backcountry. As time has gone on there has a been a significant reduction in off trail hiking everywhere except for named off trail routes such as the SHR. As noted by WD and others, named anything be it trail or otherwise now attracts a higher concentration of folks. But less publicized trails apparently see far less use. This could be seen on some of the USFS Wilderness maps that would have "unmaintained" trails shown on them. Many of these trails cannot be traced at all in my experience (from late 90s to present). Off trail use trails have faded to nothing in many places. Bottom line is that I think it is now easier to plan a trip and not see a soul than it was 50 years ago. In fact I can think of many places where I can do this and not even have to hike far. As noted by others I don't encounter as much stock and such as I did way back in the day.

4. Human changes part II. Regulations etc. I remember Wilderness Permits in the early days and thinking how inconvenient they were (as a little boy observing the process). With time, it has become clear that this has helped minimize overuse in so much of the backcountry. Also, in my opinion, the permitting process has become much more convenient as the years have gone on. I remember having to count on the first-come-first-serve permit and camping out at entrance stations and such. Sort of what lots of people (NOT me) do for Pliny the Younger. Now the afternoon-before pickup helps, as does the MUCH nicer(electronic) advance reservation system. It used to be reservations were a shot in the dark. You snail mailed it in with a whole lot of alternatives and just hoped you'd get your first choice and you wouldn't know for weeks. Fishing...I think the keep limit was 10 when I started but it may have been more. No matter, 10 fish is way too many, unless they are small brookies and you're the only one in a relatively large group that fishes (and wants to eat). Needless to say the fishing license costs a lot more, but I still think it is a bargain considering the use I get out of it. But, as we know the biggest change in the fishing picture has nothing to do with cost of license or keep limit...rather it is in fisheries management. I began fishing in an era when so many lakes were air dropped that one could almost assume a lake capable of supporting a trout population (ie deep enough etc.) would have trout. I then went through an era in the late 80s/early 90s when I'd regularly exchange info with the then CDFG (ie tell them what I found and get all their air drop records in return). Beginning in the early mid 90s the frog issue began to factor into evaluation and management of high lake fisheries in California. This has resulted in the cessation of air dropping in many lakes, the changing of stocked species in some (total termination of brookie air drops), and the killing of trout populations in other lakes. Although the number of trout-bearing lakes in the High Sierra is still enormous, and this includes many amazing fisheries, the changes in high lake trout management have materially impacted trip planning strategy.

More regulatory stuff. The places one is allowed to make a campfire in the High Sierra has diminished enormously since I began hiking up there in the 60s. This has been a good thing in terms of reducing the impact of human visitation, but even for adults there are certain enjoyable things about campfires (even more a factor for kids) that are missed. For me the biggest plus of a campfire (small one) is being able to grill my fish over it.

Bear canisters. I played a dicey game for so many years, sleeping on my food (as my pillow). I never had an a bear encounter doing this but I'm glad we have bear canisters now, so I have no problems with areas that require them. I take them on all backpacking trips whether canisters are required or not. As I've stated in other posts, in addition to safely storing food, I find they make excellent camp seats. Well worth the weight and bulk, to me.

5. Human Changes Part III: "Changes" owing to me. Spanning 50 years it is safe to say that there have been changes in my hiking capability and this has entered into planning. Most of the changes happened when I was a kid where I remember being on a number of Sierra Club hikes where I was far behind the next-to-last. Then came my peak hiking speed and strength years from my early 20s through my 30s. I don't think I'm that fast now at age 58 (approaching 59), but I'm close enough so that I can still plan trips the way I did in my peak years.

More significant have been changes in focus and emphasis with time for me. Until my early to mid 20s peak bagging was my no. 1 priority in the High Sierra and this reflected my dad's priorities. I had been interested in fishing from the time I was 6 or 7 but it wasn't until I was about 16 when a friend of mine gave me some tips that would begin my shift from peak-centric to fishing-centric. By my mid 20s I had become very fish-centric and would throw in only an occasional peak bag. Until about my 30s I viewed off trail backpacking as a means to an end: to get to a camping spot to bag peaks or to find big fish. From my mid 30s or so onward I started to realize that I enjoyed off trail backpacking as an end in itself. That hasn't changed. I think I have also changed my geographic emphasis in the Sierra over the years from being very much East Side-centric to not having any emphasis today (ie I enjoy the entire range and plan accordingly). That having been said, from the time I was a teenager to now, I have viewed the old Mt Goddard 15' quadrangle area as the crown jewel of the High Sierra backcountry. I still do.
Since my fishing (etc.) website is still down, you can be distracted by geology stuff at: http://www.fresnostate.edu/csm/ees/facu ... ayshi.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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rightstar76
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Re: Mountain Changes?

Post by rightstar76 »

After reading Giantbrookie's post, I started rethinking my post. I began to realize it's my choice to watch videos of self-centered Sierra Nevada hikers who think they are the star of their own show. Hey, if I watch their videos, I am their audience! But if I choose to stop watching them, I will see the mountains the way I did when I first started backpacking, long before social media.

I asked myself, honestly, if I hike out of a little known trailhead to a little known destination, how likely is it that I am going to encounter a testosterone fueled YouTuber? Probably not. The mountains haven't changed as much as I thought.

Thanks for putting things into perspective Giantbrookie. Awesome post! :)
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Re: Mountain Changes?

Post by cgundersen »

I'll second rightstar: awesome compilation Giantbrookie. It has me chomping at the bit!
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Re: Mountain Changes?

Post by SSSdave »

GB, I really like your input about how the vast majority of the areas within our wildernesses having changed little over decades. That is exactly how I feel too despite the fact the majority that are ever glued to trails and popular named destinations have been whining just the opposite for years. Even along popular routes it is laughable how short a distance one can go from trails and find wonderful places to site that look like no one has ever camped there. Although it is true that some cross country routes advertised on Internet boards like this and peakbagger use routes are receiving more traffic, vastly more places I do routes on are virtually empty of use signs.
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Re: Mountain Changes?

Post by bobby49 »

Yesterday I was northbound toward Mammoth, and I was slowly ascending Duck Pass. The day was warm, so I was pausing in each patch of shade on the open hillside. When I got a half mile from the pass, there was a couple descending, so I politely asked how far it was up to the pass. The man was older than I am, if you can believe that. He was tall and still strong. I asked them how far south they were going. The man said that they were headed to Mount Whitney. That seemed like a slightly long journey for them, at least in my humble opinion. I commented that I won't be on Mount Whitney for another month, and that it might become my 42nd trip up Whitney. The man said that when he gets there, it should be number 50 for him, and that he started hiking the JMT in 1968.

I think that a few older individuals are still that active in the mountains. They must have good physicians.
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