Eliminate wolves in Kalifornia?

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Harlen
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Re: Eliminate wolves in Kalifornia?

Post by Harlen » Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:50 pm

Russ, ever try roadkill.... Of course you have haven't you? Old San Jose Road is our steady source of venison. We're on deer number 15 now, plus 1 wild pig, 1 rooster (tough as boot leather!) and 2 rattle snakes (awful lot of bones). I have several friends who drive the road in the early a.m., who will call me whenever they see a fresh kill. I just had to turn one down a couple days ago, as were busy, and had company over, and many folks don't seem to like the way I look with blood and guts up to my elbows. I think I look just fine. We make a great marinade, and use a dehydrator to make up to 40 lbs. of venison jerky. All free!
p.s. We also have a population of mountain lion in our backyard and up into the Santa Cruz Mountains, and we love the fact that they live here. Just have to play it safe ourselves and especially keep an eye on the dogs early and late. I reckon having predators around who can eat you and your dog friends makes us better hikers- more aware, and it certainly makes nature more intense and fascinating.








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rlown
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Re: Eliminate wolves in Kalifornia?

Post by rlown » Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:55 pm

I have harvested roadkill, but only to practice tanning hides. It wasn't a good experience.

I'm guessing you don't buy a hunting license. https://www.wildlife.ca.gov/enforcement/caltip.

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Re: Eliminate wolves in Kalifornia?

Post by gary c. » Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:52 pm

balzaccom wrote:To be fair, many environmental advocates also support protecting pumas, which DO absolutely live in or near urban areas. These are complicated issues, and it doesn't further the discussion to accuse others of not thinking them through.

It is possible fir reasonable people to disagree on these topics, and I always recommend a simple rule for these conversations: "Don't tell us what you think your opponents say or do--tell us what you think the solution is."
.
I thought that I was telling you what I thought that the solution was " allow a balanced management program without screaming every time one was killed or removed". I'm all for protecting wolves, pumas, and just about anything else including non-native species as long as it is done responsibly. If you would like to see what I consider an almost hysterical and irresponsible discussion try and start one about the management of a non native species like the wild horses and what they do to the environment because of overpopulating their range.
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Re: Eliminate wolves in Kalifornia?

Post by balzaccom » Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:16 am

Gary, I'm not really arguing with you...but you seem willing to attack folks needkessly. I live in an area that saw significant public support for protecting "old growth eucalyptus trees.". The mind boggles.

But I am still not sure what your solution entails. What is a balanced management system when there are a total of fewer than ten wolves? According to CA Fish and Wildlife, grey wolves we're native to CA as recently as 100 years ago until they were hunted to extinction. Much like California Condors, should the state make an attempt to protect them and help these few establish a native population again?
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Re: Eliminate wolves in Kalifornia?

Post by hikerduane » Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:08 pm

I rarely fish anymore with trout having been removed where I go.
Up here on the Plumas NF where I live, they have had to shoot bears because they were getting used to knocking garbage cans off. People feed deer, inviting Lions. My next door neighbor litters because she sets out food for the poor animals, but is too old I guess to find where the plastic container she put food in got carried off to. I rigged up a barrel over 10 years ago to put my smelly garbage in so I wasn't the problem attracting bears.
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Re: Eliminate wolves in Kalifornia?

Post by Lumbergh21 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:08 pm

balzaccom wrote:To be fair, many environmental advocates also support protecting pumas, which DO absolutely live in or near urban areas. These are complicated issues, and it doesn't further the discussion to accuse others of not thinking them through.

It is possible fir reasonable people to disagree on these topics, and I always recommend a simple rule for these conversations: "Don't tell us what you think your opponents say or do--tell us what you think the solution is."

It's amazing how the conversation changes if you follow that simple rule.

Our deer population is quite out of control, and we either need to increase human predation or natural predation. In urban areas, human predation seems more likely, simply because it may be easier to control. In rural areas, natural predation may be a better solution.

I live in a relatively urban area, but spend most weekends at our cabin a block from the Stanislaus National Forest. The solutions need to different for those two environments.
Actually human predation would be a more likely solution in rural areas. Kind of hard to kill deer in urban areas where you aren't allowed to fire a gun, with good reason (it isn't safe to do so). I'm pretty sure that a reduction in the deer population in more remote areas would also reduce their numbers a bit in urban areas as they would feel less pressure to enter the urban areas. However, the Department of Fish and Wildlife (no longer Game) seems to want an increase in deer population based on the ridiculous regulations and costs to hunt, if you can even get a tag in the area you want to hunt. Seeing the carcass of a recently killed deer while on a bike ride, I don't think a program to increase the number of Mountain Lions would sit too well with me or other cyclists.
Deer on the other hand can add a little fun to the ride by trying to keep up with them. Very difficult to do.

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Re: Eliminate wolves in Kalifornia?

Post by gary c. » Tue May 01, 2018 2:41 am

All that I was trying to say is that there are some people/groups that once a population were to become established they would object to hunting or any other kind of cost effective way of reducing populations when needed. I mentioned wild horses before and I feel that mountain lions are another example. There are many areas in the state where some believe that there are too many and that they are decimating the deer populations but I don't believe that they will ever allow them to be hunted in CA again.
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Re: Eliminate wolves in Kalifornia?

Post by dave54 » Tue May 01, 2018 9:29 am

The OP was about wolves and since the wolves currently in California are not the native subspecies but the Canadian subspecies, and should they be considered an introduced non-native?

A similar argument is since cannabis is non-native, should cannabis growing be outlawed?

Plant crops aside, non-native striped bass were introduced in the Sacramento River by DFW. Wild horses (vermin with hooves) are non-native and are outcompeting native wildlife. Yet horses are protected by federal law. Very few streams in California have native trout strains. Nearly all planted trout are genetic hybrids with trout from all over the country.
Since the native wolves are no longer available, the current wolves migrated in on their own, and the wolves are not displacing or competing with any other top canine predator, The OP question has been answered from a biological viewpoint the wolves are not considered invasive.

My primary objection to the wolves is they have been forced upon the locals here without any input. The current home range of the packs are not in remote backcountry. They are close to existing towns. The threat to domestic livestock, family pets, and children walking to school has not been addressed properly. The rest of the state, DFW, and USFWS told the residents of rural Northern California to sit down and shut up -- you are not allowed to voice a dissenting opinion. One of the basic principles of democracy is the will of the majority prevails, but with the balance of protecting the rights of the minority. Well, the rural residents of California are a minority too. The power brokers in Sacramento and the environmental activists in the urban centers are ignoring our rights.
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Re: Eliminate wolves in Kalifornia?

Post by AlmostThere » Tue May 01, 2018 9:34 pm

I don't think all the wolves were gone from California in the first place. Rare, but I think they've been there all along.

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Re: Eliminate wolves in Kalifornia?

Post by freestone » Wed May 02, 2018 6:59 am

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