Using digital maps/navigation in backcountry?

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Tom_H
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Re: Using digital maps/navigation in backcountry?

Post by Tom_H »

I carried a small compass, but rarely used it in the Sierra. In the case of forest fire and smoke forcing me to bail in an unplanned direction, it could have been valuable. When doing off-trail hiking in dense Appalachian forests, I had it in my hand constantly and a topo in the other.

For SAR, that is a whole other story. I would see GPS and sat phone as absolute necessities. You may need to transmit highly accurate coordinates immediately at any time. But you better know traditional nav methods really well too.
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rhyang
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Re: Using digital maps/navigation in backcountry?

Post by rhyang »

Like most I carry a paper map always, but with a UTM grid printed on it just in case I need to get a GPS location. GPS is useful in situations like heavy forest cover, where you cannot easily sight landmarks, and in darkness (such as when you are stumbling back to camp after a long alpine route :) and of course in the winter (trails covered with snow).

I didn't use my phone for navigation until last year, when I went to the Oregon Cascades (some really thick forest and many small tarns). I like Backcountry Navigator for Android.

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rhyang
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Re: Using digital maps/navigation in backcountry?

Post by rhyang »

Oh and in case it hasn't been said already, set your phone to Airplane Mode to turn off all the radios except for the GPS receivers. That way your battery consumption is not so high :)

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oldranger
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Re: Using digital maps/navigation in backcountry?

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rhyang wrote:Like most I carry a paper map always, but with a UTM grid printed on it just in case I need to get a GPS location. GPS is useful in situations like heavy forest cover, where you cannot easily sight landmarks, and in darkness (such as when you are stumbling back to camp after a long alpine route :) and of course in the winter (trails covered with snow).

I didn't use my phone for navigation until last year, when I went to the Oregon Cascades (some really thick forest and many small tarns). I like Backcountry Navigator for Android.

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Navigating in the cascades and back east with compass and map is a real challenge. The micro topography plus forest really makes things interesting. Once aborted route in dense fog in central Oregon cascades when I realized that if I was off just a degree or 2 that I could miss my destination. I have since added a barometer to my navigational tool kit and would not have had the same concern as I could have stopped when I dropped to the proper elevation and then decided whether I needed to go right or left to get to my destination. Navigating in the Sierra is much easier.

Once tried using gps in the cascades but found my own sense of direction and location was much more efficient than following the gps course. So I opted not to purchase one.

On the other hand a gps in my fishfinder/chart plotter is an essential tool on my fishing boat. It is necessary to maintain proper trolling speed an to locate channels and structure precisely.
Mike

Who can't do everything he used to and what he can do takes a hell of a lot longer!
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AlmostThere
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Re: Using digital maps/navigation in backcountry?

Post by AlmostThere »

Tom_H wrote: For SAR, that is a whole other story. I would see GPS and sat phone as absolute necessities. You may need to transmit highly accurate coordinates immediately at any time. But you better know traditional nav methods really well too.
In SAR, we always double checked the GPS with the map because highly accurate coordinates were a must. So no. That is why I never trust GPS units. We used them to log our routes while searching, uploading the tracks into a laptop and looking at how well search areas were covered.

The deputies had the sat phone... it would have to be a wealthier county for everyone to have them. Nope, just high band radios that work variably. If you want everyone on your local SAR team to have better equipment, healthy donations to them would help. Most SAR teams are nonprofits with volunteer searchers who are often trying to get their gear on the cheap -- the team GPS units were scheduled to be updated when I left the team, but ha, that likely wasn't going to happen any time soon...
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rhyang
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Re: Using digital maps/navigation in backcountry?

Post by rhyang »

oldranger wrote:On the other hand a gps in my fishfinder/chart plotter is an essential tool on my fishing boat. It is necessary to maintain proper trolling speed an to locate channels and structure precisely.
Now this is interesting -- I've been hemming and hawing about buying a fish finder for my kayak for a few months, trying to figure out what features I really want. GPS has always been a "nice to have, but I don't really sea kayak" thing, but being able to mark interesting underwater features is probably desirable.

Also, I just got back from New Melones -- that thing is HUGE ! I hadn't really considered lake navigation an issue before, but I suppose it could also happen someday that I just get carried away some evening and have to find my way back to the boat ramp in the dark ..
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rlown
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Re: Using digital maps/navigation in backcountry?

Post by rlown »

one word: Fog.

Had it on Eagle lake once, Had LORAN at the time. worked flawlessly. GPS is more than "nice to have" on any boat. I've been stuck in the fog on San Pablo bay and the Montezuma slough. Have radar as well, but overkill for a kayak.
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Re: Using digital maps/navigation in backcountry?

Post by SSSdave »

December of 2015 loaded the Trimble Navigator GPS app onto my moto g cell phone with a $100 SDcard map set for the whole state of California including satellite views and land owenership. For the most part since the GPS app has just been a novelty I didn't really need to use. I have not brought it backpacking because the cell phone battery would only last a couple days at most and for timberline Sierra areas I backpack into it isn't necessary... during the day. However it is useful on day hikes. I always have a paper map and compass. Typically off trails, I am continually holding and looking at a paper topo after progressing short distances evaluating how what I see relates to the map, very focused. Over decades that has developed a much higher skill than for anyone that just checks a map occasionally while on routes. But as a photographer that ventures into a wide range of terrains, there are times when that is not enough.

For instance in dense redwood forests thick with understory shrubs on very common overcast days. Hard to tell compass directions and in the past would use a topo plus compass though a GPS tracking tool is superior. Cross country at dense mid forest elevations in some places of the Sierra can also be difficult. A good example is the route across the northern forest of Hoffman Mountain I made and then Giantbrookie repeated. Also I night hike a lot and in moonless conditions one may not even be able to see where a mountain slope starts 100 yards away as it may be just black in any direction. Even with a powerful 200 lumen flashlight, objects beyond a couple hundred feet become too dark. That is where my green 5mw laser used to be extremely useful. On trails at night one can tell where one is by how a trail turns and crosses identifiable features. However cross country at night or say early dawn to reach a sunrise tripod spot, much more difficult. And GPS solves all that. GPS was most valuable on a day hike I did during the Death Valley Superbloom in 2016 on a hike I did into Black Mountains badlands. Eroded badlands geologies may have some strange canyon formations with bizarrely narrow twisting ravines with splits that down inside one can see little. Read this adventure I had that I rate as the most difficult route I've ever done to a place no one goes to.

http://www.davidsenesac.com/2016_Trip_C ... -3x1v-text
Black Mountains badlands adventure

The most significant comment I have about GPS is for those with considerable off trail map skills if relying on GPS too often, one ought to expect one's skill at being able to understand where one is and the intense focus required just using a topographic map will diminish.

David
http://www.davidsenesac.com/2017_Trip_C ... les-0.html
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sambieni
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Re: Using digital maps/navigation in backcountry?

Post by sambieni »

I just returned today from taking REI Outdoors class on intro to backcountry navigation. I wanted to refresh my skills on compass navigation. Yes, the class accomplished that. But it was very, very basic and not tons of dialogue. What was shocking - I asked the guide a number of questions about navigating in fogged /cloud cover conditions in Sierras and the guide's answer to this and many other questions led to "check your coordinates" against the GPS. I had just finished telling him story how last summer, my GPS was my Iphone and I lost it. Earlier in the morning I mentioned how technology can fail, which was impetus for this class for me. He nodded, but didn't really push this line of thinking much at all. It was completely counter to what I expected from the training. Way too much highlighting of technology as a security blanket to assist w/ the map/compass guiding.

Definitely updated my compass skills, but really was surprised by the REI trainer .
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AlmostThere
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Re: Using digital maps/navigation in backcountry?

Post by AlmostThere »

No one in search and rescue will ever advocate relying exclusively on electronic devices for anything.
Endstop.
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