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Sierra Nevada dead tree count at 66 million

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Re: Sierra Nevada dead tree count at 66 million

Postby oldranger » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:26 pm

Nice description of the issues Dave!

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Re: Sierra Nevada dead tree count at 66 million

Postby Tom_H » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:00 pm

It would be helpful if the politicians would at least acknowledge that global warming is real and that it has effects. It's beyond belief that so many are that naive. IMHO, most know it's true; they're simply willing to repeat the lie so endlessly that they convince people GW is a hoax.
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Re: Sierra Nevada dead tree count at 66 million

Postby dave54 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:38 pm

Tom_H wrote:It would be helpful if the politicians would at least acknowledge that global warming is real and that it has effects. It's beyond belief that so many are that naive. IMHO, most know it's true; they're simply willing to repeat the lie so endlessly that they convince people GW is a hoax.


I am not sure the number of true deniers is very high. A small number of politicians like to grab the microphone and make noise, catering to their donor base, but they do not represent most. I believe the real policy differences are how to deal with it. Those so-called 'Accords' that are periodically hammered out are a joke. Everyone pats themselves on the back, proclaiming they now have a binding global agreement with teeth, and then everyone ignores it (how many have there been? 4? They all ended the same - nothing). I do not believe the voters of any country would tolerate the social, political, cultural, and economic upheaval that is required to even slow the rise in temperature. I know I would not. I am not certain there is a politically palatable and realistically possible solution.
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Re: Sierra Nevada dead tree count at 66 million

Postby Tom_H » Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:49 pm

No doubt, completely reversing it is nigh impossible. OTOH, it's also impossible to begin addressing a problem when one is in denial that the problem even exists. Acknowledging the problem can inform decisions like going with solar/wind/tidal/etc. rather than things like the oxymoronic term clean coal. It will take a long time to even begin slowing the process, but we have to start somewhere. Otherwise, our posterity will have no livable planet to inherit. There is more to protecting this wilderness we all say we love than keeping out oil rigs and ATVs.
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Re: Sierra Nevada dead tree count at 66 million

Postby dave54 » Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:57 pm

No one is even pretending reversal is possible. Even stopping warming at its current level is not possible. The international focus is keeping the rise at 2 degrees C by the end of the century. I doubt that compromise goal is feasible.

Changing lightbulbs and shopping with cloth bags are symbolic more than substantive. The meaningful actions required are pretty drastic. Detached single family homes will cease to exist -- everyone will live in multifamily units. You will have to prove need to own an automobile, electricity will be rationed by steep escalating price structures. The cost of transportation will make imported items too expensive, so our year around availability of fruit and vegetables will cease. A rather dreary scenario. The voters will oust politicians before it gets to that point and the measures required to prevent 2 degrees C will fall by the wayside. This is why I maintain solutions are not possible.
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Re: Sierra Nevada dead tree count at 66 million

Postby rlown » Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:01 pm

Agenda 21?
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