Alternate (maverick's) search thread.

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Re: Overdue Hiker - Do You Have Any Info?

Post by gdurkee » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:48 pm

OK. Deep breath everyone. And another deep breath. Good! Now one more.

Here's the thing: no one should either criticize others for not being able to resume a private search nor feel in any way guilty for not doing so. Period. Only the individual can judge their own capabilities and trade-offs in going into unquestionably dangerous terrain and conditions for, at this point, little hope of a positive outcome. I will also say that unless you have extensive winter experience, you don't have enough to safely go into the mountains right now.

I will add that I know only a small group of people -- a handful -- who I would feel comfortable going with on such a trip. I was the Ostrander relief ranger for 20 years and did snow surveys for NPS for 7 years. These are winter conditions without the ability to use skis or, really, walk. It's the worst of both worlds.

So, everyone should really concentrate on honoring Larry's memory, supporting his family and friends and his HST family. That's all that can be effectively be done now.

George








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Re: Alternate search thread.

Post by ERIC » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:49 pm

I really, really do not want to have to start warning or temporarily banning individual Members, editing posts or locking threads. But the pettiness needs to stop. Now.

We're all experiencing varying flurries of emotion. Let's try to remain calm, and not turn on one another.

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Re: Alternate search thread.

Post by Jimr » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:55 pm

Perhaps, if we each took a little walk before posting our thoughts, we can keep the emotional backlash from :puke: out onto each other.

Just sayin'

Rich, I read the book twice. It is one of the few books I've re-read. An excellent glimpse into a SAR. It was especially moving for me, personally because Randy was a significant part of a trip I made in 1985 when my friend broke his foot in Ionian Basin and Randy had him helicopter'd out the next day.
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Re: Overdue Hiker - Do You Have Any Info?

Post by balzaccom » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:57 pm

gdurkee wrote:OK. Deep breath everyone. And another deep breath. Good! Now one more.

Here's the thing: no one should either criticize others for not being able to resume a private search nor feel in any way guilty for not doing so. Period. Only the individual can judge their own capabilities and trade-offs in going into unquestionably dangerous terrain and conditions for, at this point, little hope of a positive outcome. I will also say that unless you have extensive winter experience, you don't have enough to safely go into the mountains right now.

I will add that I know only a small group of people -- a handful -- who I would feel comfortable going with on such a trip. I was the Ostrander relief ranger for 20 years and did snow surveys for NPS for 7 years. These are winter conditions without the ability to use skis or, really, walk. It's the worst of both worlds.

So, everyone should really concentrate on honoring Larry's memory, supporting his family and friends and his HST family. That's all that can be effectively be done now.

George

Nice, George.

Thank you.
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Re: Alternate search thread.

Post by overheadx2 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:21 pm

I think that many of us on this board dream of pulling off adventures that folks like Quintec, maverick, W. D. and many others that frequent this forum. While these advanced hikers are always there to give advise and help when ever it's needed, I think that they may forget that most of us on this (probably up to 80%) board are strictly three season guys that very rarely stray to far from the trail. Hell, since I can't get out a lot, I just love living vicariously through them. Initially I was very interested in joining, and started looking into getting some winter gear. I spoke with my wife about the possibility of helping, and boy did I get an ear full of rational advise. The fact that I just started easy X country hiking, I have no experience in snow, I don't climb peaks and I have no experience with anything on Mavericks list gave me a jolt back to reality. So while the board is filled with people that are extremely generous with their knowledge and unbelievably good at this stuff,I believe most of us are headed there but far from ready to help out. I also believe that if this would have happened anytime in the summer, things would have been 100% different.

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Re: Alternate (maverick's) search thread.

Post by John Harper » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:30 pm

I just read a few pages of "The Last Season" on the Amazon website. Just got off the phone with my local library, and they reserved it for me. A few pages and I was hooked, very well written so far.

I smiled at the start with the rangers all in green short pants over their thermals waiting to be airlifted in for the season. I dress like that all the time when out, and people find it weird. Shows what they know.

John

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Re: Alternate (maverick's) search thread.

Post by AlmostThere » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:51 pm

I won't respond to overemotional posts directly, rather, pose a question:

Would you be able to function on any critical mission while feeling the way you do now?

There is a reason doctors and therapists do not have family members or friends as patients. The inability to remain detached is a liability.

I would NOT, were there a SAR for a friend or relative, go on that search. I would be there for sure - waiting and doing whatever supportive thing I could, whether making coffee for searchers, making a grocery run, or taking notes. (I wouldn't even try to run communications - that's almost more stressful than actual searching!)

It is CRITICAL to keep your head and treat the situation with all the seriousness and forethought you can manage. It's hard enough on a search knowing there is a human being somewhere out there waiting to be found, and a family at the command post, to keep adrenalin from forcing hasty decisions that may impede the search you are hoping more than anything at that moment to conclude successfully with a live subject. The very reason that SAR teams are so structured and must adhere to procedure - emotions are not your friend when a crisis is afoot.

Do you think Larry would appreciate his friends tearing each other apart at this time? We should agree to disagree where we can, and keep it cool. IMO. Respect each other's limitations and choices. Larry made choices of his own - he does not deserve the outcome, but I am as a SAR volunteer left to watch people live out the consequences of choices they make each search. That is extremely difficult, especially when you get out of the helicopter and see the family's faces fall as they see you, and not the person they were hoping you were.

It is a very sobering experience to find a subject years after we started searching for him. NO ONE is NOT taking it seriously, and everyone is torn - please take a break from the forum and come back when you can respond without rage.

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Re: Alternate (maverick's) search thread.

Post by ERIC » Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:50 pm

OK, I think this debate has had enough time, and I think a good variety of opinions on maverick's SAR have been represented in this and the other thread. Anything more is pointless and potentially damaging (handling this much in the same way I handled the MYLF debate). I'm going to lock it, and when maverick, Shawn and sparky return and should they wish to post details of their trip, I will be happy to either reopen this thread or allow them to post a separate thread for discussion on that topic.

Thank you for your cooperation and understanding.

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Overdue Hiker - Do You Have Any Info?

Post by canukyea » Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:49 pm

Wow there is serious message lag! I bet this post will be faster :p

In case sparky, Shawn or maverick haven't already left, I'm going to Sawmill Pass (Sat) and Armstrong Canyon (Sun). So if the objective is to cover the most area, you will probably want to search in other regions.
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Re: Alternate (maverick's) search thread.

Post by ERIC » Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:16 pm

I'm opening this thread again in hopes that people have cooled down a little bit by now. Want to make sure that if this group is going to be out there, they at least have somewhere to coordinate and report back (if so desired).
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