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SEKI Lyft?

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SEKI Lyft?

Postby fourputt » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:32 am

Kaweah Commonwealth Incidents At Sequoia-Kings Canyon National Parks: June 6-19:

Mineral King

June 19 -- Rangers and Helicopter-552 responded to the Cliff Creek/Timber Creek junction off the Timber Gap Trail for a SPOT device "SOS" call. Rescuers found the two hikers who activated the device. They were unable to cross Cliff Creek due to high water, so they activated the SOS button to get assistance. A law enforcement investigation is being conducted into the appropriateness of the activation.



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Re: SEKI Lyft?

Postby AlmostThere » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:48 am

Investigation? I hope the rescuers laughed and left. I know they didn't, it's not professional, but those hikers totally deserve a Bozo Button. SOS is after all not "we're standing here safe and sound waiting for you to build a bridge."
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Re: SEKI Lyft?

Postby maverick » Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:07 am

They were unable to cross Cliff Creek due to high water, so they activated the SOS button to get assistance.


Totally ridiculous and abuse of the emergency responders and system, really hope they are required to pay for everything!
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Re: SEKI Lyft?

Postby AlmostThere » Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:22 am

I hope -- and I am not alone in SAR personnel -- that we NEVER charge for SAR. Ever. We would see a lot more fatalities that way.
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Re: SEKI Lyft?

Postby maverick » Fri Jul 01, 2016 12:35 pm

hope -- and I am not alone in SAR personnel -- that we NEVER charge for SAR.


Yes, totally agree that there should not charge for SAR services AT, should have written that they should be fined and not that they should be made to pay for everything, they should be penalized for abusing of the system, which is why LE is conducting an investigation.
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Re: SEKI Lyft?

Postby Shawn » Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:54 pm

Just unbelievable.

You also have to wonder what their direction of travel was, as in - just turn around and hike back to MK or the way you came in. Seems this is happening at a more frequent basis, for example:

High Sierra
June 5— A group of three became separated on the Pacific Crest Trail on the south side of Forester Pass while searching for the trail. A 22-year-old female became separated from her party while the group was trying to hike up Forester Pass. After the other part of her party pressed the “SOS” button on their satellite devices, the park initiated an investigation. The subjects reunited prior to the park starting search operations.


I noticed the GEOS website does not post the flagrant misuse of SPOT/InReach devices. Sort of a self promotion of some good while not learning or educating from the bad. Shame on them.

Personally I'd vote for a flat fee for misuse of the devices (park fees / violation fees aside). Perhaps a flat fee would begin to correct some of the problems so the good folks with the park device can focus on helping those people that actually need it.
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Re: SEKI Lyft?

Postby AlmostThere » Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:21 pm

I think the parks and counties should fine the companies manufacturing the devices. Like, BIG TIME. Force them to disclaim and instruct and put more effort into getting people to understand what they are really for, instead of just handing them out like candy.

The notice goes out to SPOT and In Reach, and then every single device will come with a waiver in nice clear fonts, large type, that must be signed before the device can be activated -- it will be crystal clear, with all the power of a fleet of highly paid attorneys behind it, that it is to be used only in a real emergency, and that the company will happily pass the cost along to the stupid idiot who dares to do otherwise, thus notifying each and every person that they will have to pay the dumb tax for being dumb.
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Re: SEKI Lyft?

Postby rlown » Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:11 am

I disagree, AT. Fine the user. Much like the active cell phone usage in a car. Wish they'd crack down on that more. I'm using my horn aLOT more to wake up the idiots in front of me.
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Re: SEKI Lyft?

Postby AlmostThere » Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:37 pm

Not going to be nearly so preventative fining users... Prevention is king, in my book. Unless they fine $15000, they aren't even going to come close on reimbursing anyone - if there is a helicopter involved, just have them hand over a pink slip for every vehicle they own and the deed to the house, and you might come close.
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Re: SEKI Lyft?

Postby rlown » Sun Jul 03, 2016 4:05 pm

You don't have to fine everyone, just the idiots. Or, they could add a two step process as in "are you sure you want to press this buttion? (Y/N)", and then another that says "we'll fine you if you press this and you're an idiot not in need of actual rescue. Still wanna press (Y/N?)"


http://www.nationalparkstraveler.com/20 ... cators4573

http://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/2015-4 ... ing-device
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Re: SEKI Lyft?

Postby Dragonfly » Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:30 pm

Unfortunately, it's a delicate balance. The NPS is trying to attract an increasingly urban demographic that doesn't have extensive outdoors experience. We desperately want people to connect with nature so they will care enough to protect it. But it's harder to see them through the learning curve in an age when people aren't used to being self-sufficient even with small, everyday things, like mending torn clothes or knowing how to change a car tire. Exhort visitors at the Grand Canyon to drink lots of water on the trail, and you'll wind up with several at Indian Garden suffering from hyponatremia. People who haven't experienced a lot of physical pain in their lives will panic when they fall off on a wet rock and wind up with bloody knees and elbows, and then their companions will panic, and then a button gets pushed...

It's tough, because you really, really want people to experience the wonders of our wild places. But it's going to mean a lot of people out there who figure a SPOT device is a good substitute for doing their homework, or who follow some spectacularly bad advice they found on the Internet. And I suspect the ones who would worry about paying a fine for a false alarm are not the same people who would set off a false alarm. They would be the ones you can barely convince to get on the helicopter even now, when they're at death's door in the middle of nowhere...so yeah, it's tricky. More emphasis on education isn't going to be the magic bullet to this problem, but it's the best option I can think of.
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Re: SEKI Lyft?

Postby Clown Shoes » Sun Jul 17, 2016 1:19 pm

Maybe as part of the permit process they could advise people about the proper use of the devices the way they do with everything else
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