Requesting Your Help in the Matthew Greene Case | High Sierra Topix  

Requesting Your Help in the Matthew Greene Case

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Re: Requesting Your Help in the Matthew Greene Case

Postby Jimr » Mon Aug 08, 2016 2:09 pm

In our thirst for freedom, we must be careful not to drink from the cup of bitterness and hatred

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Re: Requesting Your Help in the Matthew Greene Case

Postby LAhiker » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:44 pm

Yes. Based on the Find Matthew Greene Facebook page, it looks like the article in Climbing magazine has been out in hard-copy since their July/Aug issue hit the stands, but it looks like it just became available online today. I think it's a generally good article, with a nice timeline. It gives a poignant sense of how Matt's friends and family, though reconciled to their loss, cannot let this go. The update about their feelings makes me even more thankful for those of you who have been searching.

The article will raise awareness of the case which in turn may mean that more people in the area may keep their eyes open for signs of Matt. Maybe someone who saw or communicated with him will come forward with new and useful information.

That said, I thought there are a couple of odd things about the article. First, though I realize there's a limit to what can be presented in a short article, I thought it was a bummer that the search trips organized by Maverick aren't mentioned.

Another odd thing is what it says about the couple who came back to the campsite in 2014 and contacted the police about their encounter with Matt on the day before he disappeared in 2013. The article says:
In August 2014 his campground neighbors returned to the area and saw a missing person sign. They called the police department and met with Detective Hornbeck and Bill Greene from search and rescue. They said they invited Matthew to go for a hike with them, but he declined. He did not say, or they could not remember, where he was going.


But I've heard, both in this HST thread and on Supertopo, that the couple said that Matt said he couldn't go hiking with them the next day because he was planning to go to the Minarets." (On Supertopo, there was some discussion of whether he might have meant he was going to the Minarets proper or to the Ritter Range more generally.) Earlier in this thread, Maverick mentions some unfortunate omissions in the police's reporting of this encounter:
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=12843&start=12#p105692

Regarding that couple's encounter with Matt, I'm wondering about the discrepancy between what was in the article and what has been reported by people close to the case.
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Re: Requesting Your Help in the Matthew Greene Case

Postby maverick » Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:36 pm

First, though I realize there's a limit to what can be presented in a short article, I thought it was a bummer that the search trips organized by Maverick aren't mentioned.


Not looking for any recognition here but closure for Matt's family, period. If the article brings awareness to this case and more people are keeping an eye out while in the area then article has done its job. :nod:

In regards to all the inconsistencies in this case, yes it is frustrating, but either way if Matt had been more specific on his location for that day, beyond just the Minarets, this case would have been solved by now.
I don't give out specific route information, my belief is that it takes away from the whole adventure spirit of a trip, if you need every inch planned out, you'll have to get that from someone else.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
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Re: Requesting Your Help in the Matthew Greene Case

Postby LAhiker » Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:14 pm

maverick wrote:Not looking for any recognition here but closure for Matt's family, period. If the article brings awareness to this case and more people are keeping an eye out while in the area then article has done its job. :nod:


You have a great attitude. I hope the article does have that effect.

maverick wrote:In regards to all the inconsistencies in this case, yes it is frustrating, but either way if Matt had been more specific on his location for that day, beyond just the Minarets, this case would have been solved by now.


True, alas.

We're certain that Matt did say to them that he was planning to go the Minarets, right? Though that isn't very specific, it's better than nothing -- rules out objectives other than the Ritter Range -- unless of course Matt changed his mind. If the couple in question get wind of the article and come forward again to clarify things, that would be great -- it would be good to know more about exactly what he said, the context, etc.
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Re: Requesting Your Help in the Matthew Greene Case

Postby maverick » Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:24 pm

We're certain that Matt did say to them that he was planning to go the Minarets, right?


Minarets is what was supposedly said, but the temp detective did not take notes while doing the interview, nor did they get any contact number or address, great work. :\
I don't give out specific route information, my belief is that it takes away from the whole adventure spirit of a trip, if you need every inch planned out, you'll have to get that from someone else.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
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Re: Requesting Your Help in the Matthew Greene Case

Postby Eigenguy » Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:05 pm

I hiked to Ediza yesterday. I was really hoping to get to Iceberg and/or Cecile, but I started too late on a dayhike and I was exhausted. I remember reading that Matthew's hiking pace was incredibly fast. This hike was BRUTAL for me!

Here is one thing I really don't get... I crossed easily 50 people on the way to Shadow Lake, and maybe another 20 on the way to/from Ediza. Each of them said hello, so I believe they would have had some recollection of me and vice/verse. I find it odd that nobody came forward to say they saw Matthew on the trail whether it was Shadow/Ediza or Devils Postpile/Minaret. But perhaps this is because of the time that passed between whatever happened and the realization that he was missing.

http://imgur.com/a/2EMGe

The only poster I saw was on the bridge over San Joaquin before the climb to Shadow Lake. All of the other posters were gone.

It's easy to think that such a search can be completed with some helicopters and such. But yesterday was very illustrative of how daunting and difficult a search in these mountains would be. I remember just staring and thinking Matthew could be anywhere. And there mountains in front of mountains and so on.

BTW, I saw a random group of hikers with only trekking poles come down the scree on the northwest side of Ediza. I should have asked one of the fellows where they hiked from. One of them asked me what lake they were at. I am not sure if they just cross-countried randomly? I imagine they would have been climbing??? Seemed odd that they came out of nowhere and didn't know where they were. :-k
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Re: Requesting Your Help in the Matthew Greene Case

Postby Vaca Russ » Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:47 am

I climbed Ritter on 8/11/16. As Eigenguy said, the only poster still around (kinda) is the one on the bridge over the San Joaquin.

I looks like a trail repair crew fixed the sign at the Shadow Creek / JMT North junction and remove the sign.

IMG_0005.JPG


IMG_0006.JPG


I did see this sign at the Iceberg Lake trail junction.

IMG_0007.JPG


IMG_0008.JPG


I don't remember seeing this back in July. :-k

Here are the relevant pages from the summit register:

IMG_0042.JPG


IMG_0043.JPG


IMG_0044.JPG


Nothing new to report. We will keep trying.

Thanks,

-Russ
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Re: Requesting Your Help in the Matthew Greene Case

Postby maverick » Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:29 pm

Thank you for the photo's of the register Russ! :)
I don't give out specific route information, my belief is that it takes away from the whole adventure spirit of a trip, if you need every inch planned out, you'll have to get that from someone else.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
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Re: Requesting Your Help in the Matthew Greene Case

Postby LAhiker » Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:32 am

Last month, Eigenguy said:
I hiked to Ediza yesterday. I was really hoping to get to Iceberg and/or Cecile, but I started too late on a dayhike and I was exhausted. I remember reading that Matthew's hiking pace was incredibly fast. This hike was BRUTAL for me!

Here is one thing I really don't get... I crossed easily 50 people on the way to Shadow Lake, and maybe another 20 on the way to/from Ediza. Each of them said hello, so I believe they would have had some recollection of me and vice/verse. I find it odd that nobody came forward to say they saw Matthew on the trail whether it was Shadow/Ediza or Devils Postpile/Minaret. But perhaps this is because of the time that passed between whatever happened and the realization that he was missing.


Eigenguy, I agree that that's a little strange; sometimes I wonder whether Matthew made it to the trailhead, or if he did whether he might have taken a different or more obscure route than what we've all been thinking. But in addition to anyone who might have seen him not knowing that he later went missing, there may have been fewer people on the trail when he went. You did your hike on a Sunday and Matt did his on a Wednesday. I would guess there are much fewer people on weekdays. Also, you imply you got a late start. Based on a text he received, Matthew may have been up unusually early that morning. (Of course, we don't know whether he actually left for his hike super-early or whether he went back to sleep.)

Russ, thanks for posting those pictures.

I hope those who are going out there tomorrow have a safe and fruitful search!
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Re: Requesting Your Help in the Matthew Greene Case

Postby AlmostThere » Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:12 am

Eigenguy wrote:I hiked to Ediza yesterday. I was really hoping to get to Iceberg and/or Cecile, but I started too late on a dayhike and I was exhausted. I remember reading that Matthew's hiking pace was incredibly fast. This hike was BRUTAL for me!

Here is one thing I really don't get... I crossed easily 50 people on the way to Shadow Lake, and maybe another 20 on the way to/from Ediza. Each of them said hello, so I believe they would have had some recollection of me and vice/verse. I find it odd that nobody came forward to say they saw Matthew on the trail whether it was Shadow/Ediza or Devils Postpile/Minaret. But perhaps this is because of the time that passed between whatever happened and the realization that he was missing.


That's actually really easy to explain. When I was SAR, one of the things we did was interview people we see on the trail, collecting information. It becomes obvious when one does this that people are really, really terrible reporters -- people never remember things right. NEVER. It's why all SAR professionals carry notebooks and write everything down.

In interviews, people get age, race, clothing, pretty much everything wrong -- I've been on searches for Hispanic subjects and been informed that a "bunch of white guys" went through, only to find out those were the subjects later. I'd place bets (and win) that if I were to question the people who talked to you, they would muck it up royally.

Chances are good a lot of people saw him, but you'll never get to talk to those people because they were too caught up in their own fun and paying no attention, so have no really clear memories of him.

One of the things I do now, after coming to this realization, is when I meet people on the trail who don't appear to be doing well or really clear headed or just give me a feeling (ever meet someone who just doesn't seem prepared enough?), I make notes of what they look like, talk to them and try to get names, destinations, schedule, etc. I ran into (for example) a guy in soaked jeans, flannel shirt, with a massive external frame, hiking up into a snow storm up Kibbie Ridge as we were hiking down to get out of the storm -- he seemed to me on the verge of hypothermia. I reported him to the ranger at Eleanor the following morning because he looked like he might be on his way to real trouble, if he wasn't already halfway there.
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