Maverick's 2016 Annual HST Meet-up

[Hobbes]

I don't believe anyone who has attended a meet-up has ever hired/utilized a mule driver. The entire perimeter of YNP is heavily trafficked by large mule teams to service the HSCs. While not quite reaching this degree of absurdity, the irony is rich & beautiful:

http://captaintahoe.blogspot.com/

[calipidder]

A quick question with regards to the 2-night request in the initial post - if I wanted to stay both nights would those be the nights of the 28th and the 29th? i,e, arriving Thurs and leaving Saturday morning, or would it be arriving on Wednesday so as to stay there that night, spend all of thursday back there, and then leave Friday morning?

I need to sit down with a map and plan something out so I can snag a permit. Ability to attend still pending work, but I definitely don't want a permit to come between me and the trip if I am not busy.

[maverick]

A quick question with regards to the 2-night request in the initial post - if I wanted to stay both nights would those be the nights of the 28th and the 29th? i,e, arriving Thurs and leaving Saturday morning, or would it be arriving on Wednesday so as to stay there that night, spend all of thursday back there, and then leave Friday morning?

Hi R,

Yes, nights of the 28th and 29th.

[oleander]

How's this for an idea: For those of you who can only do one HST get-together, and who are worried about crowds at the July 2016 HST meet-up, why not instead join the 2016 citizen search for Matthew Greene? (Sept. 8-13, 2016.) Every year, we wish we'd had more boots on the ground. Navigation and Class 2 experience is required, and Class 3 experience is preferred, but many of us who don't have super-advanced skills have contributed to the search. In most ways, I prefer the search to the annual meet-up, because everybody gets better acquainted, and who doesn't think the Ritter Range is gorgeous, and most importantly because it's hiking for a cause. PM Maverick for more info. Here's the report from the 2015 search:

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=13708

As for the one night vs. two thing at the July meet-up: Hobbes and I are the two people who've made both of the HST meet-ups ('14 and '15). Hobbes is an uber-delightful personality who suddenly shows up, is very engaging, and then, next morning, is vanished like a phantom. Hobbes has a limited number of days, so one-night is his MO. However, several of us decided that for the 2016 meet-up, we'd like to encourage people to make an effort to stay for two nights, instead of one, to get to know each other a bit better. That said, nobody is stopping the unherdable Hobbes, nor any others, from just staying one night of the meet-up, if that is your scheduling reality or your preference. I'll be happy just to have a Karl sighting.

Oleander

[maverick]

How's this for an idea: For those of you who can only do one HST get-together, and who are worried about crowds at the July 2016 HST meet-up, why not instead join the 2016 citizen search for Matthew Greene? (Sept. 8-13, 2016.) Every year, we wish we'd had more boots on the ground. Navigation and Class 2 experience is required, and Class 3 experience is preferred, but many of us who don't have super-advanced skills have contributed to the search. In most ways, I prefer the search to the annual meet-up, because everybody gets better acquainted, and who doesn't think the Ritter Range is gorgeous, and most importantly because it's hiking for a cause. PM Maverick for more info. Here's the report from the 2015 search:

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=13708

Totally agree.

[Gazelle]

Also weather/your itinerary/can you make the miles you planned all come into play. I plan on getting there Wednesday night day hiking Thursday leaving Friday but I could take longer to get there and that goes out the window. Or skip the day hike and leave Thursday. Last year I got there 1st and left 1st wasn't even sure anyone would show up due too weather so 23 people I doubt It, if so I WILL find a secluded spot and just say Hi.

[snusmumriken]

Hesitant to post this. But 23 people coming together at an off trail location? That is just wrong. Methinks some should consider alternative plans. Great people, I understand but totally contradictory to purposes of wilderness. Woe to the person heading to the Lyle Fork of the Merced expecting to find solitude only to find dozens of people scattered thru out the basin. I think there are better places for large numbers of people to come together.

Mike

+1

This is not just off trail, it is an incredibly pristine location. No use trails, no ducks, no micro trash, no fire rings, no established campsites. It is maybe the only place I have been in my life where there was no indication that another human had been there, ever.

It is very hard, if not impossible, for a large group not to leave a trace. Flattening of fragile vegetation at the tent sites. A faint trail that quickly forms from footsteps going from the campsite down the lake to filter water. Many cat holes. Yes even a group like this, where everybody is dedicated to LNT, will in fact leave a trace.

Let's do the 2016 Annual HST Meet-Up somewhere else. Please!

[Hobbes]

I really get a kick from the plaintive missives about keeping the Sierra pristine, without proper consideration & appreciation that we're all very, very lucky they even exist in their current state. To me, it indicates a certain lack of historical understanding about the way California developed as an extractive economy and its relationship to US colonization from the east.

First & foremost, we all need to recognize that the only reason the Sierra are the way they are today is because miners didn't find sufficient resources to justify further investment - and it wasn't for lack of trying. How many people know the true purpose of the Tioga road? Mather wouldn't have been able to purchase it on behalf of YNP if Bennettsville had been a success. One need look no further than Pine Creek to see what the vaunted, pristine Sierra would look like if other important resources had been discovered.

Of course, we don't even need to get into the issue of water ... but I will. Hetch Hetchy, Big Creek & LA DWP are the obvious subjects. But how many people know Inyo FS was created in 1907 as a watershed for an aqueduct that wasn't yet built? And that its original footprint was a small region around the Mammoth caldera (ie source of the Owens). Imagine for a moment if Inyo hadn't been created/expanded to its current size and/or the aqueduct hadn't been built. Lake Tahoe anyone? Or, how about the suburbs of Sacramento & Fresno stretching up into the hills?

So, count your blessings. Secondly, when one suggests restricting certain experiences for others, it not only reeks of elitism, but renders one subject to criticism of hypocrisy if they fail their own purity test. For instance, why is Mammoth Lakes, a city with a population of 8K smack dab in the middle of the
Sierra, given a pass as if it has always existed and is therefore a "fact of nature".

Ultimately, what we are presented here is nothing more than a reactionary impulse when faced with certain immutable facts, such as population growth in general, and California specifically. The solution is not to scream at the sun & moon, but to deal with managing reality in way that most comports with the greatest good. That means not exclusivity, but awareness and sensitivity to cultural norms. Every activity has its own code of ethics, its rules of engagement. Doesn't matter if it's surfing, hiking, sailing, skiing, etc. The way to continue the happiness of everyone engaged is to teach how the system works that best preserves the enjoyment of all.

The people are going to come; they are coming. Do you want them taking mules, riding bikes, trailing wheeled trolleys, building structures, etc, or would you prefer that they walk on their own two feet and practice LNT to to their best ability? That's the battle - not whether or not they're there in the first place.

[maverick]

Hi Kristin,

Appreciate your concerns.

This is not just off trail, it is an incredibly pristine location. No use trails, no ducks, no micro trash, no fire rings, no established campsites. It is maybe the only place I have been in my life where there was no indication that another human had been there, ever.

Which is why it was chosen as this years destination.

It is very hard, if not impossible, for a large group not to leave a trace. Flattening of fragile vegetation at the tent sites. A faint trail that quickly forms from footsteps going from the campsite down the lake to filter water. Many cat holes. Yes even a group like this, where everybody is dedicated to LNT, will in fact leave a trace.

Which is why there may be three separate camps designated, 8 per as required by Yosemite NP.

Let's do the 2016 Annual HST Meet-Up somewhere else. Please!

Sorry, but destination like this one, will always be where Meet-up locations will be held, because it represents the core of what HST's spirit is all about. With that said, keeping the wild, wild, by minimizing our impact on it, is also part of what HST is about, so your concerns are noted Kristin.

[markskor]

why is Mammoth Lakes, a city with a population of 8K smack dab in the middle of the Sierra, given a pass as if it has always existed and is therefore a "fact of nature".

Actually, Mammoth Lakes is not part of, or smack dab in the center of, the Sierra - We are located in the Long Valley caldera....Sierra starts a bit west, other side of the San Joaquin watershed.

Appreciate your concerns, Kristin .

This is not just off trail, it is an incredibly pristine location. No use trails, no ducks, no micro trash, no fire rings, no established campsites. It is maybe the only place I have been in my life where there was no indication that another human had been there, ever.

Which is why it was chosen as this years destination.

It is very hard, if not impossible, for a large group not to leave a trace. Flattening of fragile vegetation at the tent sites. A faint trail that quickly forms from footsteps going from the campsite down the lake to filter water. Many cat holes. Yes even a group like this, where everybody is dedicated to LNT, will in fact leave a trace.

Which is why there may be three separate camps designated, 8 per as required by Yosemite NP.

How are three sites (close together) any better?

Let's do the 2016 Annual HST Meet-Up somewhere else. Please!

Great idea!

Sorry, but destination like this one, will always be where Meet-up locations will be held.

Respectfully, would better if read, "Destinations like this one will always be where (Maverick's pick of his annual) Meet-up location will be held." The Sierra is vast, lots of other places to "Meet-up" too...places not as remote... maybe not as fragile? Perhaps might be better to just go elsewhere instead of this year's one?

Like many here, Mav operates under his own guidelines - maybe others can follow suit/make up their own itineraries instead? While not really that concerned with any HST group here would leave any major (lasting?) "trace" above Hutchings Meadow, still agree, IMHO, the location chosen may require a bit more respect than 24 people coming together there, all at one time.