AMS in children | High Sierra Topix  

AMS in children

Backpacking and camping basics and other general trip planning discussion for the uninitiated. Use this forum to learn where to look for the information you need, and to ask questions, related to the beginner basics of backpacking and camping, including technique and best practices.
User avatar

AMS in children

Postby hjldennis » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:50 pm

Hi,

I was wondering... My kids tend to have AMS symptoms especially when they were younger. At lease that's one of my theories. My older boy, now 10, used have symptoms on the first night at 8-9000k elevation when he was younger, but no longer has the issue even at 10k+. My duaughter on the other hand vomitted a few times on the first day of hiking to Little Lakes Valley (after sleeping well at Rock Creek Lake the day before) last year.

My google search yields no such findings in increased AMS in younger children. BTW my wife is more likely to be effected by AMS than most... Perhaps it's lack of hydration as neither my wife nor daughter is water drinker. I mean they tend to drink very little of it.

I am contemplating on this since we are planning on another easy 10K elevation backpacking in couple of weeks and wondering if I should take a chance with my daughter and have her suffer a bit on the first day, or find another destination at a lower elevation. We do not have an extra day to acclimatize. But then, if my son's case holds true, she might just be ok....

BTW the possible destinations so far are 20 lakes or Sabrina basin. BTWBTW neither will allow any fires I presume, right?

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Dennis
wandering outdoors and the universe



User avatar
hjldennis
Topix Acquainted
 
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:58 am
Experience: N/A

User avatar

Re: AMS in children

Postby rlown » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:01 pm

I would say they need to drink water regardless if they feel thirsty. It's amazing how fast you dehydrate at altitude. If you start peeing less and it's darker than normal, you're not drinking enough water regardless of whether you are thirsty or not.

Also depends on your pre-hike meal. I've had AMS twice after a eating pizza on the way in the night before, at your 8k-9k elevation. I was fine the next morning after a couple aspirin and lots of water.

A friend of mine decided to decline my offer of water on the drive to North lake before the hike. We had to give him an extra hour in the morning and 2 quarts of water to get him functional again.

You might also consider a baby aspirin the night before the hike, but I'm not a doctor. Check with yours.

Fires are definitely out.
User avatar
rlown
Topix Junkie
 
Posts: 5325
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:00 pm
Location: Petaluma and Wilton, CA
Experience: Level 4 Explorer

User avatar

Re: AMS in children

Postby schmalz » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:07 pm

Are you implying that pizza is not a good pre hike meal? Sounds like blasphemy.
User avatar
schmalz
Topix Expert
 
Posts: 460
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 9:18 am
Location: Altadena, CA
Experience: Level 4 Explorer

User avatar

Re: AMS in children

Postby rlown » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:16 pm

schmalz wrote:Are you implying that pizza is not a good pre hike meal? Sounds like blasphemy.


Not at all. Everyone is different and learns from experience. Have a friend who did a Miami-hammy or whatever when we did dennys one time before a trip. We had to bring extra TP. (same guy who wouldn't drink water).

My Pizza adventures came from RT in Placerville and somewhere on 108.

I'm now a Subway sammy fan for that meal before, or a nice carbonara pasta at a sit down Italian restaurant.

Back to the point, Dennis: Ask your kids doctor for advice.

Russ
User avatar
rlown
Topix Junkie
 
Posts: 5325
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:00 pm
Location: Petaluma and Wilton, CA
Experience: Level 4 Explorer

User avatar

Re: AMS in children

Postby maverick » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:40 pm

Dennis read:
http://www.altitudemedicine.org/index.p ... e-sickness
http://www.treksafe.com.au/medical/docu ... re_001.pdf

Yes, hydration starting a few days ahead is recommended, but don't overdue it either
when hiking. Eating complex carbohydrates a few days ahead of the planned departure
(carb loading) is also recommended. http://www.altitudemedicine.org/index.p ... t-altitude
HST= Wilderness Adventurer who knows no bounds, except for their own imagination.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
User avatar
maverick
Forums Moderator
Forums Moderator
 
Posts: 8028
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:54 pm
Experience: Level 4 Explorer

User avatar

Re: AMS in children

Postby rlown » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:45 pm

Regardless of the nice links Mav posted, talk to your pediatrician. Never self-diagnose unless you have to. The doctor knows their history as best you explain it and can make great recommendations based on the individual.
User avatar
rlown
Topix Junkie
 
Posts: 5325
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:00 pm
Location: Petaluma and Wilton, CA
Experience: Level 4 Explorer

User avatar

Re: AMS in children

Postby hjldennis » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:46 pm

Salty food is never good for you I guess, which does not stop me from them. One of my favorite backpacking meal is ramen which is packed with sodium and chemical additives! Only if they had dehydrated pizza meal....

My brother is a doctor and my good friend one of the top pediatrician, but I tell my friends that they are only good when I need antibiotics or in this case dramamine. just kidding... kinda... LOL. And I won't give dramamine to my kids either..

Looks like if we eat well and hydrated we should be in good shape. More I think about it, I think keeping hydrated had more to do than the age...
wandering outdoors and the universe
User avatar
hjldennis
Topix Acquainted
 
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:58 am
Experience: N/A

User avatar

Re: AMS in children

Postby ucangler » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:06 am

I read somewhere that AMS affects adolescent and younger kids a bit more. It could be wrong, but I remember reading it somewhere and to me it makes sense. My theory (I was premed before getting into finance) is that young ones have to catch up 2 fold.

1) They are already in continuous growth which means that most of the water, proteins, and energy burned will be used for daily activity and growing up. This means making more cells by default including protein synthesis (blood cells/ muscle/ enzymes etc), DNA synthesis, and bone growth. 2)When in a high altitude environment, humans need to synthesize more red blood cells asap to make up for lack of O2.

Given the 2 factors above, I wouldn't be surprised younger ones need more nutrients, water, and rest to combat AMS compared to adults. I wouldnt be surprised if their bodies temporarily halted normal activities including digestion (throwing up) due to the opportunity cost of energy and nutrients. The body with its choice of using energy to digest food or using energy to make new blood cells or keep up with strenuous travel would choose to ditch the food and focus on the task at hand.

Also, the main element that our red blood cells need is Iron. Iron is the element with the correct (2+) charge that our blood uses to naturally attract O2 molecules (2-). I would highly suggest a good source of Iron on the first few days up at that altitude and 1IRON rich meal right before going up there. That way, Iron readily available in the system when they go to bed (when new blood cells are made).

Lastly, bad AMS symptoms is greatly associated with inflammation of the brain/head. This is the reason people get headaches up at high altitude. A recent study that reinforced my theory of anti-inflammatories being the best to prevent AMS is here: http://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2 ... -find.html
It makes sense that using an anti-inflammatory to treat inflammation is sound as opposed to a pain killer that only masks the pain but not treat the inflammation.

Of course you should consult with the doctor first and perhaps give him what I wrote and see what he says but I would suggest for your young ones to do the following:

1) Eat a good IRON rich meal before the way up. Iron like red meat (with lots of red blood cells), oysters, etc.
2) Find some Iron supplement in child doses to give them during the first few days. Especially at night when they sleep, so the bodies can grab them from the blood stream and use for more blood cells.
3) Give them some Ibuprofen allowed by doctor before the way up there and during the first couple days of trek. Always eat eat before taking Ibuprofen. Bad on empty stomach.
4) Lots and lots of water this is critical. The body cant make anything without water and cant get rid of waste from synthesizing all the good stuff just mentioned.
User avatar
ucangler
Topix Acquainted
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:23 pm
Experience: N/A


Return to Backpacking / Camping 101



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

cron