Complete Backpacking Preparedness

Questions and reports related to Sierra Nevada current and forecast conditions, as well as general precautions and safety information. Trail conditions, fire/smoke reports, mosquito reports, weather and snow conditions, stream crossing information, and more.
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rlown
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Re: Complete Backpacking Preparedness

Post by rlown »

AlmostThere wrote: Sure enough it started to rain. I ran across the meadow and in the time that took, the skies opened, the peaks were shrouded, and we had no chance to dive into tents - down it came. We all had dry clothing in our tents so we huddled under a pine and watched the weather go, and go, cycles of hail and rain, and the temperature dropping.

My four month old jacket sopped up rain like a #$%@ sponge, wet through, soaked my red SAR shirt, and of course my pants and underwear were all wet as well. So much for waterproof!
How could you not have time to dive into a set-up tent? And which rain jacket shouldn't we buy?
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maverick
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Re: Complete Backpacking Preparedness

Post by maverick »

Another aspect that has not been mentioned is the introduction of electronic
navigational gear, like a GPS, that has taken the place of a solid understanding of
topo maps and compass usage.
The Spot is another such device that when in the wrong hands may give the otherwise
inexperienced hiker a false sense of security and boldness.
Sure these devices have there place when used mindfully and in conjunction with
a solid foundation in navigation.
Am willing to bet that the +400 folks who checked out the "Lighting Safety Facts" thread
that the majority did not read the attached threads, because either they said "I know
what to do" or "It ain't doing to happen too me". Sure the likely hood is very small that
one will get hit, but those of you who have ever got caught in a precarious situation with
lightening bolts hitting the ground all around will never forget it, and have read up
on the safety precautions afterwards. Unfortunately we live in a society that learns
after the fact, many times we have to experience or witness tragedy before we are
scared into learning how to avoid such dangers, and because of many peoples short
attention span, and after some time the old habits will resurface again or people forget
unless one stays diligent on reminding, and re-educating one self on a yearly bases.
Do you remember this incident from 7 years ago: http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/S ... 619625.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Of coarse this goes for all the other, more dangerous activities, that people die
from like climbing, river crossings, hypothermia, and numerous others.

MK, you are right, we are spoiled by the relative mild weather patterns here in the
Sierra which gives a false sense of security.
For example in the Rockies one should keep an eye on the sky at all times because
thunderheads can come up on one very quickly, and catch you in a less than safe
predicament like back in 2008: http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/16 ... etail.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And yes, I am a lightning chaser, and understand the dangers involved, make an attempt
to lower my risks when possible, unfortunately everyone is at danger when a lightning
storm hits, there is no real 100% safe place to go when in the backcountry.
My point in this thread was to get people to understand that you can raise the odds
of survival with at least a basic understanding of these skills, and these skills need to
be practiced, so one can instantly recall what to do instead of guessing or thinking
about what to do.
I have witness folks pulling out small first aid books in an attempting to stop bleeding
from a major gash, if you try that when your solo your blood loss from the time
spent reading on what to do will have you go into shock.
Professional Sierra Landscape Photographer

I don't give out specific route information, my belief is that it takes away from the whole adventure spirit of a trip, if you need every inch planned out, you'll have to get that from someone else.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
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rlown
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Re: Complete Backpacking Preparedness

Post by rlown »

maverick wrote: Sure the likely hood is very small that
one will get hit, but those of you who have ever got caught in a precarious situation with
lightening bolts hitting the ground all around will never forget it, and have read up
on the safety precautions afterwards. Unfortunately we live in a society that learns
after the fact, many times we have to experience or witness tragedy before we are
scared into learning how to avoid such dangers, and because of many peoples short
attention span, and after some time the old habits will resurface again or people forget
unless one stays diligent on reminding, and re-educating one self on a yearly bases.
Do you remember this incident from 7 years ago: http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/S ... 619625.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Of coarse this goes for all the other, more dangerous activities, that people die
from like climbing, river crossings, hypothermia, and numerous others.
You don't forget a lightning bolt. esp, if you're on the water either in Minnesota or here in the delta hitting within 1/8 mile from you. When you're in an aluminum boat or a 24' boat with and aluminum bridge. Those happened in the water; to me. They were spectacular. Still.. you don't touch what you don't have to and minimize your risk. That's all you have.. No different then at altitude.

You live or you don't and you minimize your chances as best as humanly possible.

When in lightning strikes, the last thing you should think about is your GPS, but you should turn all electronics off in case they desire to get fried.
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AlmostThere
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Re: Complete Backpacking Preparedness

Post by AlmostThere »

rlown wrote:
How could you not have time to dive into a set-up tent? And which rain jacket shouldn't we buy?
I didn't want to take a gallon of water in with me. Nor did I want to miss the fantastic cloud show when it finally broke...

I'm doing a review on the HiTec jacket over on backpackgeartest.org, if you want to read the final report it should be up in a couple days. I could give you a list of jackets not to buy - waterproof AND breathable is never breathable enough, frankly. And waterproof is sweaty and wet just the same.
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acvdmlac
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Re: Complete Backpacking Preparedness

Post by acvdmlac »

Here is an updated link for a scoring system to gauge the severity of someone's acute mountain sickness:

http://www.thepeakinc.com/assets/PDFs/ ... _001-1.pdf
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SSSdave
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Re: Complete Backpacking Preparedness

Post by SSSdave »

Agree with much of what giantbrookie wrote, a fine read. Also thanks to AlmostThere from her experienced inputs. Like GB a prime reason my pack is rather heavy is because I tend to be over-prepared for foul conditions because as an old mountain person I've learned lessons.

More on the Langley tragedy from climber's perspectives who are much more often in danger and show how the subject is rather touchy with our climbing brothers not all of which show wisdom despite experience when goals get in the way:

http://www.summitpost.org/phpBB3/langle ... 62732.html

Summary of coroner's report:

http://www.marinij.com/general-news/201 ... -foul-play

Last Saturday thru Monday, I was up in the Middle Fork of Bishop Creek basins above Sabrina. On Monday Inyo SAR in their bright orange t-shirts were involved in a full bore search for a 73 year old woman missing from a Berkeley group that were camped at Emerald Lakes, just a half mile from my own location.

http://inyosar.com/two-individuals-sepa ... -same-day/

Sunday the group leader Donald with a friendly dog had dayhiked by my rather remote camp spot between Emerald and Pee Wee Lakes. Was quite surprised anyone might happen by and had enjoyable conversation (physics guy too) for most of an hour. Monday late morning as I left a day early due to smoky skies making photography futile, met the lead SAR team person Ed along trail below Emerald and we talked maybe 10 minutes. He replayed the story told to him by group members how she turned around early on their hike along Dingleberry and I immediately suggested the person probably followed non-trail use paths below Dingleberry along its large outlet creek. Then later met the full SAR team along Sabrina also making their way up and related same logic of why that would happen. SAR team veterans probably had the same suspicions before I said anything. Indeed she was found down below near the creek which has numbers of steep sections.

At the trailhead found Donald and others who gave me a really cold Sierra Nevada Ale so chatted with their group awhile. How could a woman with years of Sierra experience get in that situation? These are really brainy former university faculty people and savvy mountain folks. What it came down to was she was not used to using topographic maps but rather always visited in groups where other leaders led. Thus is an example of a total follower without orienting, map, and route finding skills. Fortunately she was wearing enough clothing to survive the one night despite temps dropping into the 40s. But that is cold enough to die from hypothermia in just a few hours if one does not act wisely.

http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=37.18809,-118.63311&z=15&t=T

Late afternoon Saturday August 1, an extremely powerful thunderstorm came over the area that stormed for 2.5 hours ending about 6:30pm. Precipitation was probably 1 to 2 inches with lots of lightning, thunder, and hail. Result was rivulets thoroughly washed trails removing loose dirt and duff while making lots of off trail stream paths look like maybe trails.

One reason she had turned back to her camp on a group dayhike was she as an older person was weak or still sore from the hike up and noticed that early on their dayhike. About a half mile below Dingleberry the creek channel goes through a narrow slot steeply. How might a person not realize they were absolutely in the wrong place and continue descending? Well it all comes down to some people that are under stressful situations, weakened by strenuous effort, under physical distress from even minor injuries like bruises, confused by a lack of knowledge and familiarity, may act irrationally making poor decisions. And turning around, strenuously climbing back uphill, in such a mind may give way to what is easy... continuing to stumble down.

There are a lot of ways humans can die of exposure from cold. It can be a simple as a solo backpacker getting up during a moonless night to pee and walking off a 100 feet in dense forest with headlamp on. But then the cheap flashlight flops off onto the ground and two batteries pops out onto the ground. Person cannot see so frantically feels all around like a blind person and only finds one after a half hour of feeling. Hands are no cold and numb. They get turned around, start moving in wrong direction, slowly moving further away from tent and warm sleeping bag. Not a few of our ancestors would laugh at some of the things we supposedly modern more educated people do and our ignorance of common sense dangers.

David
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oldranger
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Re: Complete Backpacking Preparedness

Post by oldranger »

Re comments by femaleexpat:

I've been backpacking in the mountains for over 55 years. During that time I have learned my limits. Maybe thru luck but also thru care I have never had an issue concerning personal safety, injury, or weather despite thousands of miles of solo and accompanied off trail travel over some nasty terrain. Most people I have been in the backcountry agree that at times I don't play well with others because when I am certain I am correct and the situation requires the correct decision I will not go along with the group even if everyone disagrees with me. As a result of this attitude I have passed up some really nice trips because I did not trust the leader to make the right decision when I foresaw that critical decisions might have to be made on the trip. I didn't want to put the group in the position of a possible disagreement between myself and the leader because I would do exactly as Jonathan did. Anticipating that possibility made me write off a great trip. Though I violate one of the basic rules of backcountry travel by going solo, given that choice I become quite conservative. I have turned around several times when topping an off trail pass and I could not find a way down that I felt comfortable with. I have chosen not to go high as planned when thunder storms seem like a real possibility. I know that one cannot eliminate risk but I have the right and responsibility to myself and my family to say "No" when I believe a risk exceeds a certain level of probability. Consequently there is a real possibility that I will come to distrust a leader and feel my own welfare is best served by separating from the group. So I am always ready to break two of the four principles stated by femaleexpat.

Mike
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Who can't do everything he used to and what he can do takes a hell of a lot longer!
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