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Let people know (where you're going)

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Re: Let people know (where you're going)

Postby whrdafamI? » Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:51 pm

I always carry Moto Rola "Talkabout" radios. My experience with them is that the first ones they came out with were the best. Model 250 and 280. The new ones have more bells and whistles and don't work for beans. Just MHO.
Better to have it and not need it than it is to need it and not have it!

Get busy living or get busy dying.



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Re: Let people know (where you're going)

Postby rlown » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:32 pm

AT,

Any chance you can point us to SAR documentation? Probably best to know exactly how they think to plan an extraction/search. I know the coast guard publishes theirs for mariners.
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Re: Let people know (where you're going)

Postby AlmostThere » Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:59 am

rlown wrote:AT,

Any chance you can point us to SAR documentation? Probably best to know exactly how they think to plan an extraction/search. I know the coast guard publishes theirs for mariners.


Not sure how much that would help. They all seem to be somewhat different in their approach - there are manuals on how to run Incident Command, how to implement things, but the actual searches are approached with different attitudes and the reasoning of different people.

There are lots of books about SAR - here's one on SAR fundamentals. http://books.google.com/books?id=JWNcKs ... &q&f=false

PS on the radios - if in the information you leave behind you mention that you have a ham radio, FRS radio, sat phone, etc - you can bet we'd be trying to use it to talk to you.
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Re: Let people know (where you're going)

Postby Mike McGuire » Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:22 am

rlown wrote:There's another aspect here that was lightly touched on.. Communications. My group regularly carries "walkie-talkies"...


In this vein, a simple cheap low tech thing worth carrying is a good loud whistle. You can blow one for a lot longer than you can yell, and be heard further.

Mike
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Re: Let people know (where you're going)

Postby rlown » Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:39 pm

Seems like it'd be nice if the wilderness permit form had all those fields that you mention on it, and one could enter them, regardless of starting point. I only asked about SAR approaches because if someone might be looking for my party, I'd like to know what their general approach might be. I could better position my team, unless dead of course..

When I show up for my permit, they only want my name, and where am I staying each day. And sometimes, those are way off..

two cents, for what it's worth.
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Re: Let people know (where you're going)

Postby wildrose » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:08 pm

I went to a seminar (Search and Rescue 101) last night in my local REI (Saratoga REI). The guy who gave the talk is from Bay Area Mountain Rescue. http://www.bamru.org/bamruinfo.html.
I was surprised that all the SAR people in his group are volunteers and they spent a lots of their own time and money to pay for training and participating in the SAR operations.

He did say, as far as he knows, no SAR charges people for being rescued, and that includes Yosemite SAR program. They only want to charge people if the person being rescued refuse to get out of the wilderness with them. One time that a family reported a group were missing and they went and found the group. But the group were having a good time, they just forgot to tell their family. So the group wanted to stay in the wilderness. He got really upset, and telling them after the SAR had 2 helios and dozens of people searching for them for many hours, they'd have to come out with SAR or they needed to foot the bill of that operation. So those people came out with him. :-)

He's advices:
Know your limit, prepared, leave note to people about where you go when to plan to come back. If lost or hurt, stay calm, stay warm, stay dry and stay put. Don't hesitate for asking help.
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Re: Let people know (where you're going)

Postby AlmostThere » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:12 pm

wildrose wrote:He did say, as far as he knows, no SAR charges people for being rescued, and that includes Yosemite SAR program.


Yosemite SAR will charge for medical services provided, and bill your insurance if you have it. And, with our team, if we arrive and the person refuses help, we walk away - we do not threaten to charge them. Otherwise he is correct.

I wouldn't expect anyone to be charged.

We are also called upon to search for missing children and Alzheimers sufferers, and to track felons on the lam in the wilderness.
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Re: Let people know (where you're going)

Postby ManOfTooManySports » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:25 pm

AlmostThere,

Thanks for this thread. We usually leave a detailed itinerary. This year, in response to your post, we have added detailed identifying information and a photo. We'll leave it with a family member to email to the forest service if we are more than 24 hours late (a call to the rangers first, of course). With the photo and the info, we'll be much more easily found.
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Re: Let people know (where you're going)

Postby bheiser1 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:58 pm

AlmostThere wrote:
wildrose wrote:He did say, as far as he knows, no SAR charges people for being rescued, and that includes Yosemite SAR program.


Yosemite SAR will charge for medical services provided, and bill your insurance if you have it.


What insurance does the SAR team charge? Health insurance? in the way an ambulance service would?
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Re: Let people know

Postby bheiser1 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:04 pm

AlmostThere wrote: interesting that Google thinks North Lake is in Yosemite.


Also, apparently Mt Whitney has moved. According to Google it's now located in Yosemite Valley.

It's on this map ... just scroll the map to the left ( errr, move the map to the right, so you can see what's to the left) ...

The JMT is now a day hike :D

http://www.yosemitehikes.com/yosemite-v ... il-map.htm

:bear:
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Re: Let people know (where you're going)

Postby quentinc » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:09 pm

bheiser1 wrote:[
What insurance does the SAR team charge? Health insurance? in the way an ambulance service would?

Good question -- I bet most health insurers would refuse to cover SAR.
Who does cover the cost of SAR? I know the rescuers volunteer their time (and deserve a Purple Heart for it!), but what about the helicopters, etc? I guess the NPS.

As someone who would make a bad "rescuee" (I change my mind on the fly too much to leave a meaningful detailed itinerary), I have to say I'd gladly pay if it were my life that was being saved. Who wouldn't?
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Re: Let people know (where you're going)

Postby AlmostThere » Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:32 am

quentinc wrote:
bheiser1 wrote:[
What insurance does the SAR team charge? Health insurance? in the way an ambulance service would?

Good question -- I bet most health insurers would refuse to cover SAR.
Who does cover the cost of SAR? I know the rescuers volunteer their time (and deserve a Purple Heart for it!), but what about the helicopters, etc? I guess the NPS.


You cover the cost of SAR. Usually the county sheriff's office runs the SAR team. Any moneys for helicopters or other resources comes from them and the helo is usually the lion's share of the cost. Volunteers buy their own equipment, usually, and for searches, we get a mileage reimbursement and sometimes a sandwich or burrito for our trouble (and a nice thank you when we're all done). NPS SAR teams are paid for their services and get all their equipment bought for them, but the money comes from the gov'ment of course. Your tax dollars at work.

It usually works this way - when your county residents come to our county and get lost, we'll go looking for them, so you (the local SAR) will do the same when our county residents visit your county and get lost.

YOSAR will charge the MEDICAL insurance, for MEDICAL services rendered by the MEDICAL staff on their SAR team (which counties don't typically have on their teams - unless you get paramedics volunteering). Same as if you visit the clinic in Yosemite Village and get treatment. Of course they can't charge for the searching and rescuing.
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