NPS/NFS Pilot Program To Reintroduce Grizzlies To The Sierra | High Sierra Topix  

NPS/NFS Pilot Program To Reintroduce Grizzlies To The Sierra

A place to explore the natural setting (geology, flora & fauna), people, constructed infrastructure and historical events that play and have played a part in shaping the Sierra Nevada as we know it today.
User avatar

Re: NPS/NFS Pilot Program To Reintroduce Grizzlies To The Sierra

Postby Rockchucker » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:06 pm

Wandering Daisy wrote:Rockchucker --you take YOUR access for granted. How can you be sure that "less people" does not mean YOU? How can you be sure that the closed areas are not exactly where you would like to go? Reduce the permits allowed by half and you may sing a different tune. I have gone for 8 days in the Sierra without seeing anyone. There really are not too many people in the remote sections of the Sierra. But we have to walk through the more crowded trails to get to where we want to go and these lower elevation access points are where the restrictions would likely apply.

Two areas where there are grizzlies and people (Canadian Rockies National Parks and Glacier National Park USA) there are LOTS of rules and regulations, restricted camping to established campsites, etc. that are in place, partly due to the grizzlies. I can imagine rules that would say you were no longer allowed to solo backpack because it would be deemed too dangerous.

Have YOU hiked in grizzly country? I have and I really do not like it. If Mr. Griz happens to wander on down this way on his own, so be it, but I am not for us trapping him where he is and putting him smack in the Sierra. Black bears may go after your food. Grizzlies are predators - it is really different.

I see what your saying and agree, I still like the idea of less crowds. Luckily I hike many areas that require no permits, and have little to no human contact.

I have hiked quite a bit in grizzly country as a young kid, and only had one far off encounter. I was too young to be scared. I was mainly with my grandpa and never felt scared around him. Today I would probably crap myself if I had an encounter.

By the way I didn't mean to upset you! :thumbsup:
I'm no suture for my future.



User avatar
Rockchucker
Topix Expert
 
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:22 pm
Location: Bishop, CA
Experience: N/A

User avatar

Re: NPS/NFS Pilot Program To Reintroduce Grizzlies To The Sierra

Postby sparky » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:20 pm

I wouldnt go solo in grizz country, I would probably add oder proof bags to my canister, and I would carry spray. WD....you are a brave woman!

It would really be a shame though, not just the potential damage it could cause. I don't like the idea of humans "reintroducing" anything. We aren't masters of mother earth. We are a part of it but not its master.
There is a million ways to be human, all are worthwhile.

True happiness is the absence of striving for happiness.
-Chuang Tzu.
User avatar
sparky
Topix Expert
 
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:01 am
Experience: N/A

User avatar

Re: NPS/NFS Pilot Program To Reintroduce Grizzlies To The Sierra

Postby Shawn » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:08 pm

The subject title really had me going for a moment....LOL. :D
User avatar
Shawn
Topix Expert
 
Posts: 795
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:56 pm
Location: Paso Robles, Ca
Experience: Level 4 Explorer

User avatar

Re: NPS/NFS Pilot Program To Reintroduce Grizzlies To The Sierra

Postby Wandering Daisy » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:33 pm

When I hike in grizzly country, I am on edge. But you really cannot stay on edge that much or you go nuts. After a while I just pretended they were not an issue. Maybe not the smartest thing but had to do it for my sanity. When I was most worried about grizzlies, I woke up in the morning with a moose standing 20 feet from my tent door! I spend most of my time above timber-above griz territory. But they have been know to wander up there. One time I was pinned down at a lower lake by a storm. I knew there were grizzlies and had planned on getting out of the drainage but a big storm moved in and there I was stuck for two days. Between the weather, wondering if I would ever get out, and griz problem, it was not fun. The worst is bushwhaking - you cannot see that far to avoid the bears. I carry the large bear spray cannister. There still is the problem of getting the spray shot in time. When I have hiked (mountaineering) in the Selkirks of Canada, I was with a group so was not as stressed out. Once we got up on the glaciers, we all did breath easier. I would not go solo up there. The difference is LOTS of grizzlies vs. a few in the Wind Rivers. I really love it that I can come back the Sierra and NOT have to deal with grizzlies. For all you who love grizzlies - go up to Canada and see what it is like.

Rockchucker- I did come down a bit hard on you. Sorry to be harsh. I just have a thing about what I perceive as flippant replies.
User avatar
Wandering Daisy
Topix Junkie
 
Posts: 2607
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:19 pm
Location: Fair Oaks CA (Sacramento area)
Experience: N/A

User avatar

Re: NPS/NFS Pilot Program To Reintroduce Grizzlies To The Sierra

Postby Rockchucker » Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:40 am

Wasn't tring to be flippant, one of the tough issues communicating on the Internet, no facial ques to realize the intent of a comment. Again I meant no disrespect!
I'm no suture for my future.
User avatar
Rockchucker
Topix Expert
 
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:22 pm
Location: Bishop, CA
Experience: N/A

User avatar

Re: NPS/NFS Pilot Program To Reintroduce Grizzlies To The Sierra

Postby Colter » Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:45 am

oldranger wrote:Tom,

Stats I picked up during visit to Glacier--Using fire arm to protect oneself--survive 50% of the time. Using bear spray to protect oneself survive 90% of the time...


My first thought after seeing the initial post is "that's going to cause some trouble."

That ranger quoted above is wrong. He was paraphrasing this initial quote "since 1992, persons encountering grizzlies and defending themselves with firearms suffer injury about 50% of the time. During the same period, persons defending themselves with pepper spray escaped injury most of the time, and those that were injured experienced shorter duration attacks and less severe injuries."

I strongly suspect that bear spray is usually going to be a better choice, but those stats are pretty fuzzy according to this article: http://www.examiner.com/article/bear-sp ... ety-expert

I live in grizzly country and know a few folks (including myself) that have killed charging bears. None of those people were injured. Who knows how many of those charges would have resulted in injury if the person wouldn't have fired, however. I've had grizzlies run at me many times and in my experience it's in wilderness country where they haven't identified me as human yet. When they do, they almost always immediately run away.

I don't know anyone killed or even injured by bears with the exception of one acquaintance that was was slightly banged up but, beyond a scare, not seriously injured.

I like having grizzlies in wilderness areas, despite the real but very low risk. That said is it seems like a good idea to limit reintroduction where human/bear conflict is most likely.
User avatar
Colter
Topix Acquainted
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:09 pm
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Experience: N/A

User avatar

Re: NPS/NFS Pilot Program To Reintroduce Grizzlies To The Sierra

Postby oldranger » Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:35 am

Coulter

Thanks for the clarification!

Mike
Mike

Who can't do everything he used to and what he can do takes a hell of a lot longer!
User avatar
oldranger
Topix Junkie
 
Posts: 2168
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:18 pm
Location: Bend, Oregon
Experience: N/A

User avatar

Re: NPS/NFS Pilot Program To Reintroduce Grizzlies To The Sierra

Postby gdurkee » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:40 am

Thanks for the stats. I would have thought the bear spray/firearm would have been reversed. I guess you get nervous when a bear charges and miss....


I've never seen those stats so they could be iffy. But during the whole changing the weapon carrying laws in National Parks, I called a couple of rangers at Glacier. Both said you're much better off with bear spray than a gun. Years ago, one ranger said he'd never heard of a grizzly stopped by a pistol, though I think it has happened, just rare. When you look at how many times well-trained law enforcement officers miss shots in deadly force situations, it's not hard to imagine hitting a fairly small kill zone on a rapidly moving grizzly.

Another story boys and girls? Oh, OK. So a few summers back, we had a couple of really troublesome bears. They'd already broken into the ranger station. So I see one of them approaching from a distance. I grab a big can of bear spray (which I'd never used before...) and hid behind a tree. When the bear got within about 15 feet, I came out and sprayed at the bear.

Well, it was spray, not a straight stream as I expected. So there's this huge perfectly round globe of orange mist hanging between the bear and I, poised to drift one way or the other. We both looked up at it, looked at each other, and ran opposite directions.

Pretty effective stuff.

George
User avatar
gdurkee
Founding Member
 
Posts: 658
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:20 pm
Experience: N/A

User avatar

Re: NPS/NFS Pilot Program To Reintroduce Grizzlies To The Sierra

Postby SSSdave » Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:01 pm

As was mentioned, if grizzlies were reintroduced into the Sierra, most would stay below usual summer backpacking elevations. So would likely impact lower elevation western slope areas at national forest boundaries where they would bother large numbers of private ranchettes and summerhomes built in the last few decades by urban refugees with money to spend as well as seasonal mountain meadow cattle grazing.

I have not been a fan of all the real estate dealings below national forest areas. Actually I dislike the way the whole state of California is endlessly being carved up by the short-sighted greedy land development industries. All along the those western fringe areas from above Bakersfield to above Redding are elaborate networks of new paved and dirt roads crawling with people selling land. A few grizzlies down there would do some good scaring people away from the developers. :wink:
User avatar
SSSdave
Topix Fanatic
 
Posts: 1965
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:18 pm
Location: Silicon Valley
Experience: N/A

User avatar

Re: NPS/NFS Pilot Program To Reintroduce Grizzlies To The Sierra

Postby Ikan Mas » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:37 pm

I would second the home for the grizzly being the valley. From some historical ecology work I have read, in Contra Costa County there was a thick brush patch out near Oakley. Apparently this was known in the early days as a grizzly lair. Since the brush was pretty thick, the area wasn't converted to ag until mechanized equipment was available.
User avatar
Ikan Mas
Topix Regular
 
Posts: 338
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:43 pm
Experience: N/A

User avatar

Grizzlies and the back country

Postby giantbrookie » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:42 pm

I remember backpacking during a summer in Montana back in 1980. I never encountered one but I did think about them. I was hiking solo all summer. I remember when I was the most jumpy--I was going off trail through this densely forested area with tons of bear scat. I was a bit on edge. This grouse flushed and I jumped high enough to dunk from the top of the key. I partly took care of my nervous anxiety by eating an amazing amount of the numerous different berries growing in the area (huckleberries, blackberries, raspberries, thimbleberries). This led to severe GI tract issues when I reached my destination.
Since my fishing (etc.) website is still down, you can be distracted by geology stuff at: http://www.fresnostate.edu/csm/ees/facu ... ayshi.html
User avatar
giantbrookie
Founding Member & Forums Moderator
Founding Member & Forums Moderator
 
Posts: 2439
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:22 am
Location: Fresno
Experience: N/A

Previous

Return to Sierra Nevada History / Natural History & Setting



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest