High Sierra Topix

Google Earth had a bigfoot overlay at one point with dots on the map and accounts linked to the dots. Not sure what happened to that map but it's probably still out there in the google community somewhere. Funny how the witnesses never had a camera.

Hey guys,

A couple thoughts.

First off, I didn't say it's entirely unexplored. I said or thought I was saying 99% unused. I also find it hard to believe that anyone including enthusiasts have examined all of the evidence that's been presented. There is some evidence so I don't understand how you can say "there is no evidence" or "it's all fabricated". Those are both patently false blanket statements.
I've heard plenty of skeptical arguments in my time and frankly most of them are as open ended and myopic as the thing they are trying to debunk. I appreciate the testimony of qualified outdoors people who have logged time and have not experienced this phenomenon, but I think some of you may be missing my point. I'm not trying to start any arguments.

With all due respect, I appreciate the answers and opinions, but I have to say again, I'm not trying to prove or disprove the existence of bigfoot. I am researching stories from those who believe they have had encounters or seen sign of these creatures in the Southern and Central Sierras.

Again, I am interested in talking to those folks and I don't have the motivation, time or desire to convince anyone to become a "believer." As Robert Anton Wilson said “Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence.” Why would I want anyone to do that?

To reiterate, 75-90% of the sightings I personally investigate can probably be explained as something else, but there are enough out there (including my own) that I think there is some validity to this phenomenon. This is either because of the evidence collected and presented to me, because of the witnesses' credentials (ie: trained observers such as Forest Service employees, military personnel, field biologists and law enforcement) or because of my own experiences and observations on followup field investigations.

I'm probably won't reply any more to challenges to the basis or value of my area of interest. If anyone wants to take a stand for or against the reality of these creatures, you can find lively discussion on sites for skeptics and proponents alike such as C.S.I., the Bigfoot Forums and others. Take your pick, you'll find dogmatism and certainty on both sides of the aisle. I would invite anyone who is interested in actual research on this subject, get off of the internet and into some books. I have a loose list of a few of my favorites that I periodically add to and distribute to anyone that shows an interest. Yes, some are not worth the paper they are printed on so I didn't include them on the list, but some of them are great reads filled with footnoted, well researched information. Have a go at it or don't. Makes no difference to me.

You're free to think whatever you think. At least you're thinking! Just do me a favor and carry a camera when you're out there. If you see or hear anything just remember this thread and give me a holler.

Thanks again for your time.

(Some Bigfoot Books)
On the Track of the Sasquatch- John Green
This is one of the cornerstones for bigfoot research. I highly recommend it. Although it was published in 1973, it gives a great overview of the subject. Anything by Green should be seriously read and considered.

Abominable Snowmen: Legend Come to Life- Ivan T. Sanderson
The bible of the theory of global population of and distribution of bigfoot and related upright hairy beings. A must-read book.

The Locals- Thom Powell
This one is hard to find, but one of my favorites. Try Ebay or Amazon. A quick, exciting read.
Discusses some topics considered controversial in the bigfoot research community.

Bigfoot, Sasquatch Evidence- Dr Grover S. Krantz
A fellow BF researcher once said to me, “Read this book. Then read it five more times.” Another building block for Sasquatch research.

Sasquatch: Legend Meets Science- Jeff Meldrum, Ph.D.
Unbelievably thorough… the Introduction alone will have you on the edge of your seat.

Meet the Sasquatch- Christopher Murphy
Contains the most info on the best evidence to date, and it is a recent book. Tons of Photos!

Raincoast Sasquatch- J. Robert Alley
Lots of stories from the NW Coastal Region.

Sasquatch/ Bigfoot:
The Search for North America's Incredible Creature- Don Hunter & Rene Dahinden
Rene was one of the original Sasquatch hunters and a fiery personality as well.

Bigfoot! The True Story of Apes in North America- Loren Coleman
This is the guy that does Cryptomundo (the website). It’s a pretty solid overview of his quest for BF info.

The Hoopa Project- David Paulides (Also see Tribal bigfoot by same author)
A recent year long study on the Hoopa Reservation in Northern California. Witness interviews with a forensic sketch artist. The results may surprise you.

North America’s Great Ape: The Sasquatch- John Bindernagel, Ph.D.
A wildlife biologist researches and analyzes the bigfoot phenomenon. Since it’s publication, he has actually observed a bigfoot in the field.

Discovery of the Sasquatch- John Bindernagel (exploring the concept of de-facto discovery/ pre official recognition)

Where Bigfoot Walks: Crossing the Dark Divide- Robert Michael Pyle
Written by a naturalist… Ruminations on the phenomenon… Only read this after you have read the others and still haven’t had your fill.

The Klamath Knot- David Raines Wallace (Skeptic- well written and researched)
Historical Bigfoot- Chad Arment
Bigfoot: The Yeti and Sasquatch In Myth and Reality- John Napier
Impossible Visits- Christopher Noel
Bigfoot of the Blues- Vance Orchard
Valley of the Skookum- Sali-Sheppard-Wolford
Enoch- Autumn Williams
Visits From The forest People- Julie Scott
Bigfoot Field Observers Manual- Robert W Morgan
The Beast Of Boggy Creek- Lyle Blackburn
Recasting Bigfoot- Gian J Quasar (Fraught with typos but still pretty good. Written by a debunker who argued himself into believing that amongst the confusion there is some truth to some of the legends)

one body is all that is necessary. Most of your credible witnesses carry weapons. If you saw one dancing outside your window and you had a weapon, and it was scaring you, what would you do? right through a vital organ.

No body to date. Like we need to read fiction.

It's not like I'm telling you they don't exist....

I'm just telling you there has not been one shred - not a track, not a siting or story of one - that would make myself or anyone else I know think they are anywhere in the Sierra. I've actually talked to a lot of folks about all kinds of things including Sasquatch ("isn't out there") giardia ("had it before") wolverines ("don't live here anymore" (that was before sightings of them on motion sensor cameras) or grizzly bears (some people think they interbred with black bears here).

And I find that interesting - unlike many, I do occasionally see animal remains, and plenty of tracks. Grid searching through the lower elevations you find all kinds of stuff, from old mining junk and cans dating back to the 1800s, to arrowheads, to bear beds, bear prints, deer beds, shed antlers, and all manner of things.

There is a much easier way for you to gather EVIDENCE than arguing on the internet. Go set up some motion sensing cameras up and down the areas you think the Sasquatch lives. When you get some credible shots, go there and start grid searching around until you come up with something physical and compelling.

i think we need the body.

I'm now wondering why the cams that are spotting the wolverines haven't picked up any bigf..eet?

A body would definitely quash all the question and doubt, fer shur.

dave54 wrote:
. . . There will always be 'true believers' no matter what evidence is presented, and I will not get sucked into a discussion here. . . .

[/quote]

Dave, Judging by the length of your response, it sounds like you "got sucked in".

SG

You wrote

We're penetrating a vast expanses of wilderness on a thin network of trails and roads. Most of us find it easy to follow the path of least resistance, be it game trail, indigenous trade route, F.S. trail, fire road, or mountain roads. Even considering all of those in their totality I'd assume that the majority of the space we consider to be thoroughly explored is in all actuality a very small area surrounding these thoroughfares. The remaining 99% is quite a bit of space.

As rlown noted the area capable of supporting a large biped is pretty limited and that also tends to be places humans visit.

1. Several of us avoid trails as much as we can. Myself and several of my hiking buds have a pretty good eye for tracks and such a creature should leave some.

2. Why would any creature avoid paths of least resistance? Bighorns and mountain goats are known to "prefer" airy, rocky locations. But I have run into goats on trails and have viewed many sheep tracks on trails but the closest to big foot tracks I have seen are bear tracks and barefoot people tracks.

3. I do know of a "Yeti" that lives in the US but he is a BLM smokejumper!

Russ,

I wouldn't shoot one (but then I don't carry)

Mike

I can only add my voice to those with anecdotal evidence. I have hiked and backpacked for several thousand miles in the Sierra, and have seen many, many animals. I have never seen Big Foot, nor have I ever seen scat or tracks that could have been from Big Foot.

You can add that to the database you are compiling.

Balzaccom wrote:
I can only add my voice to those with anecdotal evidence. I have hiked and backpacked for several thousand miles in the Sierra, and have seen many, many animals. I have never seen Big Foot, nor have I ever seen scat or tracks that could have been from Big Foot.

You can add that to the database you are compiling.

Well, there you have it. Ha!

To the OP, why are you only interested in central and southern Sierra?

I don’t know what to think about some fairly recent (last 50 years) encounters in the northern Sierra. The two stories I am referring to is the one from Deso, and then Buck Forester’s account. I cannot say but the Deso account is chilling and the dude even took BF researchers back to the exact spot.

I once heard something very close to my camp in the middle of the night while on a solo trip in the Warner Mountains (I know, not the Sierra). I cannot to this day even guess what the noise was. It was a tree scraping, crashing type of noise that didn’t last very long. Very chaotic noise, kind of like scaring turkeys off their roost minus the turkeys. Woke me up and I never went back to sleep.

I wonder how many early sightings were actually indigenous, aboriginal humans. Ishi sure freaked some people out...

Good luck,

Flip